Wow am I ever excited. I just ordered a new 2011 Diesel Ford F350 4x4 SRW Short Box Crew Cab. My first Ford. Converted from Dodge.
A quick question...having a hard time with understanding the spec sheets and I don't trust the Salesman.
I am looking to pull a 5th wheel with a hitch/pin weight of 2,995lbs and a Dry weight of 13,595lbs. Will this truck pull this safely? This is a Toy Hauler. Triple Axle. Plan to load up 5 dirt bikes inside with 100 gallons of water and 50 gallons of fuel and a generator, probably bringing the Trailer weight up to 17,000lbs.
I was going to install Air bags or another suspension upgrade to help ensure that this rig keeps the shiny side up. Any alternative to Air Bags, anything better?
Originally, I was going to buy the F450, but my wife said no way. She didn't want to have to drive a long box or a dually. So I ended up with the SRW Short Box F350. Salesman says no problem, but I wanted to double check.

 

So, according to this chart, 2011 Ford Super Duty | View Towing Specifications | FordVehicles.com
f350 SRW max is 15,800.. 5th wheel, (14,000 conventional)
max gvwr is 11500, load rating 3960
axle ratings are 6000F, and 7280R..

SO, if the 5th weighs 17000, and 15-25% should be on the pin, this is 2250lbs (min)
leaving 1700 lbs for people, supplies and fuel.. (max pin weight at 4250 would be over load capacity)

Also the loaded trailer is 1200 lb over the 15800 towing limit.

13595 dry is ok, under 15800

my personal opinion is you are right on the edge.. others with 5th experience will have to answer
I think I would have gone for the DRW, at 13000 GVWR and 20000 lb towing capacity. for the pin load
but you can't get a shortbed DRW
Sam

 

Thanks for the reply.

During the course of my search, I cam across this nifty modification that I am hoping will keep me on the safe side of the towing.

Firestone R4Tech Air-over-Leaf Suspension-RH3

Very cool. I really like this upgrade. I will be ordering this right away.

I kinda thought that the salesman was siding with my wife to get me to buy. He knew she wouldn't even test drive the 450 and I kinda think that is why he pushed me to get the SRW 350, cause he knew if the wife was in agreement he would have a sale.

 

I am worried about rear tire capacity, not chassis.

2x3850 isn't enough, I don't think

Sam

 

He's looking at a 3,000 lb pin weight. Empty the truck should weigh somewhere around 3,200 lbs on the rear axle with a full tank.

Why wouldn't it handle it?

 

Has anyone ever heard of Kelderman Air Ride suspensions? Any one know if these suspension upgrades help with heavy towing?

 

First off, congratulations on the new truck. I agree with sdetweil's opinion that you are right on the edge of your capacity though. Air bags and add-a-leafs will help some with how your truck sits and rides, but won't change the sticker on your door jamb that the cops go by. I have heard second hand of the CHP setting up portable weigh stations outsde of Glamis, a local OHV area in So. Cal., and ticketing overweight rigs. I have never personally seen them though. There are also a bunch of people hauling more trailer with less truck and getting away with it. I think the best course of action to take would be to take your trailer to the scales fully loaded and see what it weighs, then decide from there. Also think about how you load it, putting the heavier items in the rear of the trailer will reduce your pin weight, which may make the difference of being legal or not.

 

Nathan

I speak from experience on this one. I have the truck in my signature. It appears to be the same as the one you have ordered. I pull a Heartland Big Horn 3055 RL fifth wheel. It is 35.5 feet long and weighs 10775 pounds dry. I have weighed the new truck and trailer combo three times since I purchased the new truck. Here are the facts. The truck alone weighs 8700 pounds ready to travel. That is with full fuel, 2 adults, Savannah the Wonder Dachshund, the B&W Companion fifth wheel hitch and my Honda generators. It weighs 4980 on the front axle and 3720 on the rear axle. With the fifth wheel loaded for a trip, full propane, 30 gallons of water and some supplies and hooked up, the truck has 5080 on the front axle and 6180 on the rear axle. There is over 2400 pounds on the pin. The trailer axles are at 10900 pounds. The combined gross vehicle weight of the combo is right at 22000 pounds. You do not have to do the math. I am under on both axles by enough. However, I have only 300 pounds of GVW left before I am maxed out on the truck. I have 1500 pounds of combined capacity left. While the truck you ordered will pull it down the road, you are going to be way over specifications on weight. With an estimated pin weight of 2995 pounds, you will be over the RAWR with your trailer sitting on the hitch. You will be significantly over the 11500 pound GVW rating of the truck. You will also be significantly over the combined GVW rating of the truck and trailer package. My truck sags just a little with this load. I am going to re-arrange some of the load to get some weight off the pin to try to level it out. Adding air bags or other band aids to your new truck will not change the fact you are quite a bit over the trucks rated capacities. Your estimated weights are actually at the edge of F350 DRW capacity. You really need a dually, likely a F450, for that trailer. Do you have the trailer? If so please get it weighed. You may be surprised about how heavy it really is.

Regards

 

I had a funny feeling. I once heard "Happy wife, Happy life" I am not sure I agree. I won't be too happy if I ordered a truck that won't pull the trailer. Is there any way to compensate the Single Rear Wheel limitations with suspension upgrading? I think that the tires should handle the weight. I can also try to find a way to upgrade brakes with F450 or 550 brakes. Although with the engine/exhaust brake, it should help out with load control. I think that I am going to find my salesman and choke him.

 

If you just ordered, it's not too late to make a change. Show your wife this thread (edited pieces of it) as evidence that you really need to go with the bigger rig to keep you, your passengers and other people on the road safe. The guilt should help...

 

I found this little Towing explanation online and found it quite helpful for a Layman like me.

GCVWR: This term does not exists!!

GVW: Gross Vehicle Weight - the actual weight of a vehicle.

GVWR: Gross Vehicle Weight Rating: The maximum allowed GVW for a vehicle.

GCW: Gross Combined Weight: The total weight of everything - tow vehicle, trailer, etc.

GCWR: The maximum allowed GCW.

GAW (front or rear): The Gross Axle Weight - the amount of weight on that particular axle.

GAWR (front or rear): The Gross Axle Weight Rating: The maximum allowed GAW.

UVW: Unloaded Vehicle Weight, also know as "Dry Weight". This is the weight of a trailer with no liquids or options. The GVW of the trailer will usually be 500-1500 pounds more than this number.

Tow Rating: The rated towing capacity of a tow vehicle - generally based upon curb weight plus one 150-lb driver. This number is NOT designed as an indicator of what you can tow under normal conditions, but it is useful for comparisons.

Actual towing capacity is about 1,000 pounds less that the tow rating, or, to be more accurate, it's GCWR-GVW, provided that the number you get is less than the tow rating, which it may not be for certain vehicles (it's pretty unusual - mostly heavier duty trucks).

A note on GVWR and GCWR: Sometimes odd things happen with GVWR and GCWR on larger trucks especially. The thing to remember is that neither GVWR nor GCWR can be exceeded safely.

 

I am assuming the 3k pin weight is unloaded weight also, probably more like 4k loaded. Toy hauler manufacturers are sneaky with the empty weights also, they don't include "optional" items like air conditioners, generators, etc. My 39' weekend Warrior's pin weight is around 4700lbs loaded.

 

Sd...

Great information regarding the weight distribution. I am from Michigan and we do not have the weight police problems here that the guys in California deal with. I too have heard about the DOT inspections around Glamis. Unfortunately, for Nathan, redistributing the load will not get him away from the fact he will be way over the GCVWR. I also doubt he can get enough off the pin to be anywhere near the RAWR or the truck's GVWR. I also worry about his warranty with all that suspension equipment being added. I am not a weight police type of guy. I think some 3/4 ton trucks are derated for licensing purposes and are really 1 tons with the wrong badges. My 2004 was an example of this. I would be concerned about this scenario.

 

from Ricatic below

his weighs 4980 on the front axle and 3720 on the rear axle, empty.

3000lbs is ok, 6700 lbs on 7500 lb tire capacity (10% spare)

if he makes a mistake on loading one day in a hurry..
and gets 4000lbs on the pin.. he is at 7700,
and any more is more over..

I would be uncomfortable with my family on board..

I put 4 LRe tires on my 7000lb capacity trailer to give me more spare capacity.. 2850*4/7000 = 60% spare capacity..

Sam

 

Thanks,

Unfortunately I ordered the truck 2 weeks agao. The Trailer was ordered at the same time. The deal with the trailer is that the 5th wheel weighs in at 13,595lbs dry, before I load water and fuel and food and propane and Dirtbikes. The maximum trailer weight is 18K if I load it to full capacity with all of our things. Most of the weight will actually be on the rear of the trailer due to it being a toy hauler when it is loaded up. Was thinking about possibly installing suspension upgrade on trailer as well to help with bouncing and rocking and swaying, which should tax the truck less.