I have an '06 f.250 i just bought it. it already has 35's on it with ranch hand bumpers on both ends. is it a good idea to put any kind of programmer on it, i mean with it having the 6.0L in it will a programmer just cause me problems or what? also i was told to put a 4" exhaust on it they said that would help the engine breathe is this correct?

 

Do not use a programmer on it!

 

It all depends on what you want out of the truck, and whether you wish to keep warranty coverage (if any is left) or get an extended warranty for your truck. The single best piece of advice anyone can provide is to strongly suggest that you do some research both here on FTE (here in the Super Duty section & down in the 6.0L section) and elsewhere on the Internet for the pros & cons of these types of modifications, and maybe a bit about the 6.0L PSD in general.

Turbo diesel motors can see some significant performance increases with well written tunes (the actual coding downloaded from a programmer to the PCM) and certain aftermarket parts. However, doing this can put any potential warranty coverage at risk.

The 6.0L PSD is known to be problematic in certain areas to include EGR failures, head gaskets & head bolts. All three can be taxed when running performance tunes. In time, the weakest link usually gives out, and the repair bill can be quite expensive.

Beyond that, there are varying favorites for exhaust systems. However, you must be willing to put up with an increased exhaust tone at all RPMs...even more so at heavy or wide opened throttle. As for tuners & tuning, the favored programmer (hardware) is the XCal III with tunes (programming) from Spartan Diesel Technologies.

 

Stock headgaskets are not an issue with the 6.0. This is a common misperception. Headbolts...yes those can be problematic, but not the headgaskets. I have 508 HP on my truck and I still use the stock gaskets and highly recommend them. There is nothing wrong with the stock gaskets. It's not like the too thin passenger gaskets that were on the 02-04 mustangs.

Spartan no longer does tuning for SCT products. They have their own tuner(which I use) called the Spartan Phalanx, which uses the DashDAQ as a monitoring and uploading platform. If you go the SCT route, you would want to get tuning from Eric at Innovative.

I would also strongly suggest not doing any a/m intake on the 6.0. They do not flow more air then the stock until you are so far up the RPM band that your engine won't be able to use it. The quickest I've seen one flow more with regard to the 6.0 is at 3700 rpms and peak HP/TQ on these engines stock or just tuned is 3300 and 2000 respectively. Not worth the money. It isn't so much that they don't flow more air then stock, it's when they flow more air then stock. Just as important as rather or not they do actually flow more. This isn't even getting into the crappy filtration that most of those intakes provide as well.

 

I'd like to caveat on this subject...EVERY tuner I've seen for the diesels all say the same thing on the box...(Paraphrasing begins now) You need to upgrade the turbo, injectors and air intake to get any gains out of levels above 3. Otherwise you will have a truck that smokes like none other.

 

That depends. On it's face, I highly doubt it particularly when it comes to a 6.0. Level 3s tend to be 100 over stock for the 6.0s(on average, not all well see that high of an increase), that isn't going to make a 6.0 smoke like none other and it won't benefit from an intake at that level either. If you see anything that takes about levels above 100 hp, it's not really going to be on most of your off the shelf tuners because they can't compensate for a/m parts such as injectors and/or turbos.

 

ABOVE Level III....Most people turn them to max and claim they make a gazillion lb/ft of torque, then say the smoke is normal.

 

They still don't have much over that 100 HP that I'm talking about. Unless they've changed their programming(which is possible). I know what you said, but there is no way that they will be able to compensate for those a/m additions such as Injectors and/or turbo. Now the intake, they overfuel anyway, so that's no big deal.

I have yet to see any phrasing like you've mentioned for products with regard to the 6.0. Now if I recall correctly you have a 6.4, so that might be different.

Now as far as canned tunes, the only one that I've ever had was a Bullydog and it's level 4 was the Extreme setting(it had stock, Tow/Economy, Street, and Extreme) and it didn't smoke like no other and it didn't mention anywhere on it what you've mentioned. Like I said, I doubt they do unless you are getting that off something that does custom tuning, because they aren't going to tell you you need to do this that or the other and they won't be able to support those mods.

Given that they are overfueling, smoke is actually normal. It isn't good(if you watch your EGTs and your ECT/EOTs you aren't going to hurt much of anything) from the standpoint of efficiency and your pocketbook, but it's normal for what they are doing with the programming.

 

I know for a FACT the Edge says on the box that if you're going to to use Level 6 you need to upgrade the turbo(s) injectors, and intake to "get the most out of it". That is definitely for a Cummins 5.9 as I'm sitting here reading the box at a buddy's house. On a positive note (for me) the cops around here are ticketing the big smokers. We had a rash of that crap for a couple of years.

 

When I was looking at Edge they didn't have level 6, they just had level 5, so that might have been something they added. What are the average HP/TQ for that level?

I might add though, that Bullydog did have an even higher setting then extreme for the 5.9 dodge, but they did not have that for the 6.0. They called it the "Crazy Larry". So what you could be seeing is something specifically for the dodge and not for the 6.0.

I, however, can say that Bullydog makes no mention of that on their box and I got the triple dog which covers all makes from the big 3. I think you still have to mention specifically which one you have for Edge, and Banks etc. Even though they all outwardly look like the same product, I think Bullydog is still the only one that covers all 3 in one device.

 

It claims 180hp and 400lb/ft of torque...there is no way you'll get that gain out of a stock engine. It's an Edge Attitude for a 2004.5-2005....He's changing his turbo and injectors...I'm down here (Colorado Springs) so I can watch him blow his Dodge up.

The point I am making is no matter what chip you buy, you are taking away something else, be it longevity of the engine, fuel mileage, or the need for more money to make it work right...I'm sure Ford didn't say hey, this engine can make 3000hp and 5000lb/ft of torque, but we'll detune it to 300/600...

 

Actually with a 6.4 and custom tuning you can get over 200 on tuning alone. So yes, you can get it out of a stock engine. Not a 6.0, but there are stock engines that you can get that much out of with tuning alone.

Also there is a lot more room for the injectors of a 6.0 to flow more fuel with proper tuning. Tuning that you won't get with Edge products or the like, but you can flow more fuel then what most people tend to think with the stock injectors of a 6.0. The turbo would be the limiting factor in the case of the 6.0.

No argument there.

 

Leave it alone is always my advice.

You cannot reasonably expect to significantly increase the HP/TQ out of an engine tune without also significantly increasing the stress on the engine and drivetrain. The 6.0 is already stressed near its limits in certain areas. So you can get by with tuning to increase performance, but there is necessarily an increased risk when you do.

I consider the above to be immutable fact. But you can choose to assume the risk, and have some fun with the truck. Why not? It's your truck. Just be aware of the risk and man-up with paying for repairs if they become necessary. If you are lucky you may never have any tune related problems.

A 4" exhaust is a nice mod, but don't expect miracles. The most you can hope for is a nice sound and slightly lower EGT's.

 

I couldn't agree with you more...Brad just fired his up, and is out for a test drive....Might be posting more on the topic soon...lol