I want spacers for mine, I hate the narrow look, it was done for improved turning, cuts down on turning radius, yet obviously is responsible to high speed roll overs of the loaded 15 passenger vans.

 

Hey Neil---I was just about to update something I discovered---glad to have your input as well.

I discovered the front Hellwig sway bar links were loose. Retightened them, looked for other loose fasteners but found none--whew! This alone will make a difference I’m sure. How the link bolt nuts loosened baffles me---they are lock nuts but not NyLok—three indentations to “deform”the threads slightly.

I have the stock steel 8 lug wheels with Michelin 245/75-R16 running @ 70psi with the front-back track width being max 2” wider at the front. I believe the wheels are indeed 8” wide themselves---the Michelin guys said my wheel/tire combo was just fine, for whatever that’s really worth. (Commercial tire dealer---not NTB of that ilk.)

Rear wheel spacers sound like a good idea but I wonder about the added forces applied to the studs when the wheel flange is moved outboard. Any ideas, suggestions or actual experiences would be greatly appreciated here. I’m thinking the narrower rear track width could give rise to NASCAR-style “gettin’ loose” or oversteer. Not really looking for aftermarket alloy wheels due cost and not to my eye’s appeal on a work truck.

Do you give me a link or idea where to find the shock conversion pieces? How does they impact part number selection since we’re not longer dealing with a stock E-Series chassis?

I’m getting more jazzed about throwing down for the Bilstein’s if they can be rebuilt, revalved and have the long life advertised. There is a heavy duty or sport variation for the E-Series suggested for ambulance use. eShocks and ShockWarehouse have these for about $360 shipped—previously I was looking at $500 for a set.fitment which is the only way I’ll go. If you have a good source for them please alert me. So far I’ve dealt with Never Enough Auto in Michigan----somewhat of a suspension specialty store—had both Hellwig sway bars drop shipped through them.

My Hellwig bars as about as big as I can go I believe. I looked at various other manufacturers, talked with a few company engineers and settled on Hellwig for their design theory and selections. I received a lot of insight and knowledge about sway bar design---I now chuckle at the stock front bars with I Beam bushings!

The LSD sounds like a great idea but finding one might be the problem. For now the rear gears seem a good enough combo for gas mileage but this is something to keep in mind. Engine and transmission will be replaced sometime soon, both also good for now but I’d rather do that swap on my schedule than getting a surprise.

Looking forward to more info Neil or anyone about the rear shock eyelets, wheel spacers and Bilstein pricing,

Thanks!

J W

 

I have a limited slip in mine, was from the factory, good for getting sideways with too much throttle.

 

the conversion to the shocks was done in my garage with parts from the wall at 4 wheel parts. you can order the bilsteins set up with the banjo mounts. the the frame crossmember has to come out (drill out 4 rivets) and get 4 tabs welded in, then be reinstalled (4 bolts to replace the rivets). it's an afternoons work if you have a welder on your payroll. oh and the shock length gets like an inch or inch-and-a-half shorter.

i would contact bilstein directly. as to the crossmember, i could probably get one from my local van boneyard and mod it. or just take pix of mine for you to copy (better idea!)

if you have a dana 60 in that van, lsd's are in abundance with all the 4 wheel guys using D60's.

i was concerned in the beginning when i decided to do the wheel spacer deal. that is why i went to the guy with the best rep in the country (that i could find). and there were not anywhere near as many folks doing spacers back then. he reassured me there would be no issues. he was right. and i haul a 6000lb+ boat on a three axle trailer.

neil

 

To control body lean during turns,go with larger sway bars.Contact Hellwig,or some other mfg as to sizes.They need to be "matched" so as not to increase over or under steer..They wont affect feel in a straight line,but will really stiffen up the feel in turns.

 

Most vans don't have rear sway bars, the addition of them will greatly increase handling.

 

Hey Rick & Maples----in my opening post I believe I mentioned I have already installed BOTH front AND rear Hellwig anti-sway bars? New NAPA shocks at the same time too but those will soon be upgraded to Bilsteins I'm thinking.

Thanks for the suggestions though!


J W

 

Some parts from the F series can and do crossover to the E series it's just a matter of looking and comparing or matching the part.

 

I installed super duty 350 springs. it raised the ride hieght. dual sway bars will help. All the police/ ambulance e350s have them.

 

Agreed. Unless the springs are totally shot, they're not the problem.

Disagree. Stiffness of the body has minimal, if any, affect on handling in a body-on-frame design like full-size Ford vans.

Agree. Lower profile tires have less sidewall flex, which improves steering precsion, but I seriously doubt tire profile/stickiness is the limiting factor in a hightop van's handling capabilities.

You hit the nail on the head. I've owned 3 Econolines - a '98 E250 extended, a 2003 E350 15 passenger diesel (both bought new), and a '98 E250 extended hightop (bought with less 10K miles on it) and the hightop handles much worse than either of my standard roof hieght vans. It's a decent amount of weight very high up. Anything that can be done to lower the center of gravity will help, but you can't defy the laws of physics.

See comment above. Stiffening the body doesn't do anything for a body-on-frame design. A roll cage welded directly to the frame could possibly help, but would likely be cost prohibitive and doesn't address the real issue of a very high center of gravity.

We have a winner. Driving within the vehicle's performance envelope is the key to happiness.

In the end, if the suspension components aren't worn out, I doubt there's much that can be done to make a hightop van handle significantly better, especially an E250, which has a higher ride height than an E150 to start with.

 

Thanks for agreeing with most of my points; I do my best to avoid BS. One place where you disagree with me is the effect of the body on vehicle stiffness. I have owned big vans for the last 24 years running and had a flat nose Ford and a 1986 GMC Vandura (both unit body vans) with the tops cut out for Turtle Top van conversions. Those clearly lost stiffness--talk about rattle and shake when they have over 100k miles on them. The Turtle Tops were basically sitting on top of the van held down by clamps--way less stiff than a riveted/screwed fixed body cap.

But the body on a modern Ford van is still a rigid structure, and given that it is mounted to the frame on mounts that might have 1" or so of flex at the most, I absolutely believe that the body plays a part in the stiffness of the entire chassis. My brother has had a couple '62 Chevys, and I will note that the frames for the convertibles had a great deal of additional reinforcement because of the reduced stiffness of the body. With an intact top, the van body really is most of a "box" (interrupted by the door openings). If you remove the roof from this box, you lose a great deal of the stiffness---the roof and the floorpan are critical to the rigidity of the box, IMO. Less so than a unit body van, but still significant.

Regards,
George

 

I absolutely agree that body stiffness is affected by cutting off the roof and installing a fiberglass top, although some hightops have a fairly heavy steel frame welded in to try to offset some of the lost stiffness. I just don't think body stiffness has much affect on chassis stiffness in a body-on-frame design. The fact that the body is mounted to the frame on squishy rubber doughtnuts indicates that the engineers didn't intend for the body to contribute to chassis rigidity. Since chassis rigidity is what impacts handling, I don't think body stiffness in a body-on-frame application is going to have much impact on handling.

 

Well, without measuring actual stiffness, I don't think we're gonna get a real answer to how much a top cutout would affect van handling. Any effect would be minor compared to adding the additional weight up top, along with problems with wind gusts, etc. I think we're good.

Without a doubt, a high top van is about as tall as any "regular" vehicle gets, which means it's about as bad a handler as you can get...you could make it worse by adding a 6" lift kit

Vans don't make good autocrossers....

Thanks,
George