Just took the leap in suspension upgrade, rear springs, rear shocks, rear drums, rear brakes, & new rear brake lines.



The difference is just stunning in handling and response time, Big E rides totally flat. it picked up the rear from an 1 1/2 below stock to 1 1/2 above stock that's how bad the springs were.

My question is, has anyone gone to the taller 20 inch F series rims & tires on big E?




Can the front end turn that big tire 275/65/r20 and not hit the wheel wells?

It is not so much vanity as it is suspention upgrade, I live in Pennsylvania and our roads are terrible 3rd worst in nation, and I am going for monster suspension that can take these roads and just give a decent ride. Front shocks replaced with OEM, sway bar bushings replaced,,, what else can I do to get a better ride. If I have to replace the front coils to get an inch taller to take 275 tires than so be it.



This big E weights 8000 pounds, 4 tons, trying to get a better ride. Tire pressure revised to 60 up front then reduced to 70 in the rear, taking the max pressure stress out of the rear tires, seems to work for ride. Getting sidewall tire suspension, then to shocks, then to springs.

 

You're driving an E350 with new springs----what is this "better ride" you're seeking-----describe what you have and what you hope to achieve.

Its doubtful you can run 275 tires up front with a stock suspension height---I'm running 245/75-R16 Michelin LTX's and clearance is very close even with new springs.

Shocks, sway bars and bushings etc don't typically affect static ride height.

 

First, F series bolt patterns are NOT the same as E series, so there is not interchangeability of wheels. The vans use the old 8 on 6.5" pattern; the pickups are at 8 on 170 mm (6.69"). Pre-1997 pickup wheels would fit.

The last thing you want to do if roads are bad is to cut tire sidewall height and go to a bigger diameter rim. Look at the Ford Raptor, designed for actual off-roading (although most will spend their lives at the mall). It uses 33" tall tires on 17" rims.

The purpose of 20" wheels is bling, period. Especially if ride is a consideration, stay with smaller rims and taller tire sidewalls. The main practical reason for increasing rim diameter is brake clearance (which is why pickups and vans have moved to 16" and 17" wheels).

If you look at serious lifted and 4WD vans with large diameter tires, the front wheel wells are still usually cut out at the lower corners. If you are not much over stock height, you may not be able to get much over the stock tire diameter, especially if you increase tire width. Vans are NOT made for big tires--the size of the cargo box is maximized. Go look at the tiny tires on the new big Transit....which is even more space efficient.

George

 

Bigger rims will degrade the ride by increasing unsprung weight.

 

There is no chance you can run that size tire. That is a 34.1" diameter tire. You would need at least a 4 inch lift if not a 6 inch lift to have a remote chance at getting that tire in there. I have a 3" lift and I had to trim my fenders to make a 32.8" tire fit and your looking at a tire that is more than an inch bigger.

Also as mentioned, the F series use a different bolt pattern.

 

A Lot of good answers here, thanks all, I had to stop in the design improvement because there was to many unanswered benchmarks of suspension to discover, to get the big picture.

But what is nice to report is that the springs are installed, and I can not be more blown away at performance gain. It is got to be a 2 fold improvement in performance, I can nearly double the speed on turns and it stays flat as a washboard @ 4 tons. Balance of vehicle geometry is now 1/2 way finished.

I went to visit my spring guy again to discuss doing front coils to level the platform and complete a matched set of front coils to rear leafs. All four wheels re-suspended +30% on rear OEM, plus 10% on front but stiffer bigger gauge coil. Can not find any good data on lifespan of any spring, most say life of vehicle which makes no sense or finite # due date. But yet the biggest seller at the shop is this spring (made in Canada), that says something about data right there.

Research has given up on the 20 rim, going back down to a 18, (need to find offset spec), thanks for the F to E answers. Still can not believe Ford make so many different parts when so much more money could be made making less parts at bigger scale.




I am starting to come up with a formula to determine all spring health by the height level of one's shock piston shroud, (top part). If the shroud on the shock is down to a certain point on the lower body with the vehicle parked on level ground, then you springs are a % whooped.Would be nice to find an image of a new stock E shock shroud height to find 0 of what Ford thinks is best spring height. If we can find that, then we can complete the formula of instant gratification of knowing one's suspension state.

Tires P245/75/R16

The entire system is being built modular in design, so if this van gets whacked, all the suspension tech transfers to the next E. As the Next E @8 years 90k, probabilly is shot in suspension, then keep this one for parts. All millionaires I have met in Trades, buy 5-8 year old vehicles for 15 K, dump 2 K into it and there is 6-8 years of profitability left in it, while all OEM profit has been marginalized into one's own profit.

Then there is the cavot of insurance cost this 98 is $600 a year full coverage State Farm for a 350, but if totalled will only fetch $4800 to get to the next E.

Note on the shocks, the gabrial's are made in the same Mexico factory as OEM Ford and have all the same stamps. My spring guy called them NAFTA shocks. Ford gets $90 for them and Gabriel gets $50 each for the same thing.

 

Hey Steve...

Raising a vehicle is not a route to better handling and adding stiffer springs does not improve ride quality. I would say that you are making cosmetic changes to your van for the sake of looks and trying to justify them by stating improved function. No offense, but your van will be easier to flip over in any kind of emergency slalom type maneuver and your ride has to be pretty hard without a load. Looking at that stack of spring leaves makes my back ache... Guessing it will skitter around bumpy corners a lot as well. Physics--it's the law

I drive a wimpy E150 on P-rated tires at 41 lbs of pressure. I like my ride quality fine and while handling is not the strong suit of any van, my E150 is a lot more stable than my previous GMC Savana van. I'd add large anti-sway bars and consider lowering my van (but stiffening springs) if I was truly after handling using the slalom (or autocross?) or cornering "G" definitions. I sure would not raise the vehicle. How high off the ground is a NASCAR race truck? Man, an E van would be hilarious on an autocross course... (I have autocrossed small cars and it's a riot.)

That said, I also like the look of raised vans and would put some hefty all-terrain tires on your van if it was mine and add a rear locker axle and go do some off road trails. Or inner city chuckholes. I would be extra careful to not roll it over, though.

Good luck,
George

 

I concur.

I think since he is spending $$$ , he has the placebo effect.

 

I may have not had long to test, but so far the tests are coming back positive.

If you want to prove Physics to me that I am wrong, then post your formulas.

The spring shop is right, and you are wrong, the spring shop has been around 26 years. Their odds work against your math, and I feel it in performance enhancement.
One can go an inch over stock, be more stable, with stronger USA made steel springs. And ride Flat line in sway.

Yea know what, don't believe me, call the spring shop @ 215 799 0900 and get schooled on proper suspension geometry.

You are a 150, a toy truck, when you scale up to 4 tons come talk to me.

Could all 150's & 250's just don;t reply to this thread, because you just don't get what a 350 is .

 

If you think raising a vehicle improves handling, you are sadly mistaken.
I don't have to prove squat to you.
I've forgotten more about making a vehicle handle well than you will ever know.

Also, the spring shop just sold you.
What do you expect them to say?

 

Well----he told US didden he?

So one guy with more money than sense or practical experience suddenly knows more than the collective wisdom here---it must be that bulging wallet imparting such confidence right?

So a E350 is different than other similar chassis, its easier turning one of those into an Audi or Ferrari, the E150's and E250's fully impotent facing the E350's. Gosh had I only known my van would be demoted so quickly, so completely.

So we'll all hang our heads in shame for doubting this guy but probably be watching carefully for a real and hopefully honest report back over time regaling us once again how wrong we were----or still are.

 

Physics: A vehicle has a "center of gravity". If you raise that center of gravity, it will hurt handling. The formula is [raise vehicle 1"=raise center of gravity 1"]. If the CG is already high, making it higher is a bad thing in terms of handling which I will define here as evasive maneuverability.

If your definition of handling is purely "flat thru a corner" you are right for a minute with your giant springs, but when you flip the van over, you become wrong very quickly. Do some research on why 15-passenger vans full of people flip over--namely a high center of gravity. You even have race car people like Vettex telling you that raising your van with 17-leaf springs on the back won't help your handling. I have a good friend who spent his working life as a suspension engineer at Ford; he designed the I-beam/balljoint setup on our vans. So your spring salesman knows best, huh?

I have driven a million miles in all kinds of vehicles from sports cars to heavy trucks and I understand what an E350 is designed for and I understand what an E150 is designed for. The 350 is not anything I need. I assume your normal load will be 4000 lbs so you are definitely cooler than me.

You sure have a fragile ego and a big need to justify what you are doing (aka writing huge checks to a suspension shop for questionable modifications). Have you ever raced a vehicle on a road course or even on an autocross course? A butt dyno reading on a freeway ramp is not a measure of handling. If you just remove the springs and solidly mount the axles on your van, it will corner even flatter. With your big springs, I bet you can lift your inside wheel and lay a patch really easily. That will impress the kids in the high school parking lot. It will also lead to significant oversteer if you bust the rear end loose.

Peace out,
George

 

Wow! Is this still a van forum? it sounds like a BMW, Mustang, Corvette forums... you know, all those compensating vehicles...

Seriously, Steve, you have a big boy van, good for you. You ask for advice and some of the more knowledgeable people on the forum has given it to you. Say thanks and think about it. It may save your life.

 

I don't see whats so hard to believe about his new suspension out performing his old shagged out suspension. Much ado was made about "rollover" when his net increase over a stock ride height was a whopping 1.5". I'll take a stiffer slightly taller than stock suspension over a mushy, saggy, shagged out suspension any day of the week. You guys came on like the Captain and Crew of the S.S. Douche Canoe juuust a bit.

Feel free to discount my opinion based your superior post count and having forgotten more than I'll ever know.

 

This post was spot on. Every single line.