Notices

Running lean. Help!

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jul 28, 2010 | 12:14 PM
  #1  
Reed's Avatar
Reed
Thread Starter
|
Mountain Pass
15 Year Member
Liked
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 243
Likes: 1
Running lean. Help!

I need some help diagnosing a lean running condition on my van.

The vehicle:

1989 E-150. Van was originally a 302SDEFI/AOD combination. I swapped in a 351W/C6 drivetrain and upgraded the fuel injection to MAF. The FI wiring is off of a 93 Mustang GT, I spliced into the stock single O2 sensor to duplicate the second O2 sensor the computer will look for.


PROBLEMS:

(1) Will not idle by itself when cold. I have to keep my foot on the throttle. As it warms up it gets better, and when it is hot it will idle all by itself. However, the idle speed is still low (550-650 RPM) and the idle is rough.

(2) It has this annoying whistle once it gets warmed up. It is a high pitched "SQUEEEEE" that I can't track down. Th engine has 17-20 inches of vacuum at idle, so I don't think it is a big problem. I have taken the entire intact assembly off down tot the lower intake manifold and have found no signs of leaks.

(3) I am getting KOER trouble codes:

12- Cannot control RPM during ER Self-Test high RPM check.
41- No HEGO switching detected always lean (right side).
91- HEGO sensor circuit indicates system lean (left side).

Before I switched transmissions, I was only getting the 12 code. For some reason, switching from the dead AOD to the rebuilt C6 made my motor run lean. I did disconnect the battery while I did the swap, so the computer has reset itself, but why would it suddenly run lean?

The motor is a 351W with a cam profile nearly identical to the Edelbrock performer cam. The motor is an 84 HO motor that was originally carbed. When I switched to MAF, I kept the stock 19lb/hr injectors. Would the cam make upgrading to 24lb/hr injectors necessary?

I have tried three different IAC valves, including a brand new one, and the engine still won't idle smooth or idle on its own when cold. I have confirmed the timing is set at 10 BTDC. I am going to double check that the timing marks on the dampener accurately show TDC. It is a new dampener from Summit. I replaced the dampener and the timing set when I swapped motors.

The rough running, lean running, and whistle all indicate to me that there is a vacuum leak leaning out the engine, but I cannot find one. I have decent vacuum, especially when the throttle opens. Like I said, vacuum at idle is usually around 17 inches, and when I open the throttle is will go up to 20 inches. I have checked all the hard plastic and rubber hoses and all are good. Disconnecting all the hoses while the motor is running doesn't stop the whistle. I have replace the PCV valve and the PCV valve hose. Both fittings for hoses on the upper intake have been checked to make sure they are seated properly.

HELP!
 
Reply
Old Jul 28, 2010 | 12:45 PM
  #2  
Conanski's Avatar
Conanski
FTE Legend
15 Year Member
Photogenic
Photoriffic
Community Builder
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 31,930
Likes: 1,499
From: Ottawa, Ontario
Idle problems are often related to the TPS, have you checked it's output against the data on Ford Fuel Injection Ideally you want closed throttle voltage of 0.9 - 0.99v and a smooth transition through the whole range to WOT with no dead spots. If the closed throttle voltage is off try repositioning the TPS first before adjusting the throttle valve stop screw.. unless it looks like somebody has been messing with it.. in which case it may be wrong anyway.

The whistle at idle may be a gasket leak on the lower intake, this will be hard to find and could even be at some point under the intake into the lifter valley area. A leak like this will produce a lean condition, I guess you have confirmed there are no exhaust leaks upstream of the O2 sensor and the smog system is either all intact or completely removed?
 
Reply
Old Jul 28, 2010 | 01:04 PM
  #3  
Reed's Avatar
Reed
Thread Starter
|
Mountain Pass
15 Year Member
Liked
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 243
Likes: 1
TPS sensor puts out .85 volts. Smog system is completely intact, hooked up, and functioning. No exhaust leaks upstream of the O2 sensor. I really hope it isn't the lower intake manifold to head gaskets. I replaced those when I swapped motors, and I used RTV sealant on the front and back of the intake. I torqued the lower manifold down per factory specs. Oi. I don't want to take that all off again, but I guess I will have to check.

I'm off for a test drive.
 
Reply
Old Jul 28, 2010 | 03:48 PM
  #4  
Kemicalburns's Avatar
Kemicalburns
Hotshot
20 Year Member
Liked
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 14,285
Likes: 12
From: Bend,OR
that mustang ecu will be looking for 2 o2 sensors. have 2 sensors in each header collector or just below and wire it up properly.
 
Reply
Old Jul 28, 2010 | 04:29 PM
  #5  
Reed's Avatar
Reed
Thread Starter
|
Mountain Pass
15 Year Member
Liked
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 243
Likes: 1
The test drive was a success. The van has LOADS of power and idled silky smooth once the motor warmed up fully. It even shifted into gear once I put in enough transmission fluid! I'm glad I already had a Lokar kickdown cable so I could just hook it up to the throttle body.

At the advice of Conanski, I spliced the driver's side O2 sensor feed into the existing passenger side O2 sensor feed. Conanski reports that this is how Ford recommends you do it in their MAF conversion kit.

I am in the process of taking the intake manifolds off to clean and replace the gaskets.
 
Reply
Old Jul 28, 2010 | 07:10 PM
  #6  
Reed's Avatar
Reed
Thread Starter
|
Mountain Pass
15 Year Member
Liked
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 243
Likes: 1
Tore it down to the heads. No obvious gasket sealing problems, but I did find a couple injectors with damaged tips. Enough to make it run bad? I don't know.

Waiting for the RTV sealant to dry and then I am reassembling.
 
Reply
Old Jul 28, 2010 | 11:03 PM
  #7  
Reed's Avatar
Reed
Thread Starter
|
Mountain Pass
15 Year Member
Liked
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 243
Likes: 1
I'm cursed. I put it all back together, torqued the lower and upper intake manifolds down as per the factory instructions and to the factory torque (22-32 ft-lbs). I started it up.

I started it before I filled the radiator. When I started it, it started up smooth and actually went to a high idle like it should when cold. No chugging, no missing, much smoother. Thinking I had the problem licked, I began filling the radiator. As I filled the radiator, I noticed I had forgotten to plug the MAF sensor in. I plugged in the MAf and the engine immediately almost stalled and then began chugging and idling rough. Shortly after that I began hearing a bubbling/hissing sound and white smoke began pouring out the tailpipe. Argh. Apparently I didn't get one of the lower intake gaskets seated properly, so now it is leaking into the intake manifold. Looks like I get to take it all apart AGAIN.

Anyhow. Is it possible I have a bad MAF? Before I plugged in the MAF and the radiator fluid reached the cylinders, I actually thought I had the problem solved. Would a bad MAF make the van run like poo? I already tried cleaning the MAF with some MAF cleaner spray.
 
Reply
Old Jul 29, 2010 | 10:32 AM
  #8  
Kemicalburns's Avatar
Kemicalburns
Hotshot
20 Year Member
Liked
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 14,285
Likes: 12
From: Bend,OR
yea a bad maf would make it run like poop.
 
Reply
FTE Stories

Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts

story-0

Ford's 2001 Explorer Sportsman Concept Looks For a New Home

 Verdad Gallardo
story-1

10 Best Ford Truck Engines We Miss the Most!

 Joe Kucinski
story-2

2026 Shelby F-150 Off-Road: Better Than a Raptor R?

 Brett Foote
story-3

2027 Super Duty Carhartt Package First Look: 12 Things You NEED to Know!

 Michael S. Palmer
story-4

10 Most Surprising 2026 Ford Truck Features!

 Joe Kucinski
story-5

Top 10 Ford Trucks Coming to Mecum Indy 2026

 Brett Foote
story-6

5 Best / 5 Worst Ford Truck Wheels of All Time

 Joe Kucinski
story-7

Ford Super Duty: 5 Things Owners LOVE, 5 Things They LOATHE!

 Joe Kucinski
story-8

Every 2026 Ford Truck Engine RANKED from WORST to FIRST!

 Michael S. Palmer
story-9

The Best F-150 Deal of Every Trim Level (XL through Raptor)

 Joe Kucinski
Old Jul 29, 2010 | 12:14 PM
  #9  
Reed's Avatar
Reed
Thread Starter
|
Mountain Pass
15 Year Member
Liked
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 243
Likes: 1
I had forgotten that I added some Seafoam to the gas tank to clean the injectors. I now suspect that the white smoke is not radiator fluid, but the Seafoam doing its thing. I'll try a new MAF sensor before I rip it all apart again.
 
Reply
Old Jul 29, 2010 | 09:41 PM
  #10  
Reed's Avatar
Reed
Thread Starter
|
Mountain Pass
15 Year Member
Liked
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 243
Likes: 1
GOT IT!!!! It was a bad MAF sensor. Motor runs much better now. I will do the code checking etc.. tomorrow, but it is vastly improved. Thanks for the help!
 
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
HelenT
Modular V8 (4.6L, 5.4L)
0
Oct 9, 2016 12:35 AM
'90-f150-302-5spd
1987 - 1996 F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks
24
Jun 1, 2016 12:51 PM
neal2ross
1987 - 1996 F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks
16
Apr 6, 2016 08:11 PM
firemaster
1997 - 2006 Expedition & Navigator
1
Jan 11, 2014 01:31 AM
KTofCO
Modular V8 (4.6L, 5.4L)
10
Feb 20, 2006 01:51 PM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:58 PM.

story-0
Ford's 2001 Explorer Sportsman Concept Looks For a New Home

Slideshow: Ford's bizarre fishing-themed Explorer concept has resurfaced after spending decades largely forgotten.

By Verdad Gallardo | 2026-05-12 18:07:46


VIEW MORE
story-1
10 Best Ford Truck Engines We Miss the Most!

Slideshow: The 10 best Ford truck engines we miss the most.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-12 13:09:47


VIEW MORE
story-2
2026 Shelby F-150 Off-Road: Better Than a Raptor R?

Slideshow: first look at the 810 hp 2026 Shelby F-150 Off-Road!

By Brett Foote | 2026-05-12 12:50:07


VIEW MORE
story-3
2027 Super Duty Carhartt Package First Look: 12 Things You NEED to Know!

Slideshow: Everything You Need to Know about the 2027 Super Duty Carhartt Package!

By Michael S. Palmer | 2026-05-07 17:51:06


VIEW MORE
story-4
10 Most Surprising 2026 Ford Truck Features!

Slideshow: 10 most surprising Ford truck options/features in 2026.

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-05-05 11:17:22


VIEW MORE
story-5
Top 10 Ford Trucks Coming to Mecum Indy 2026

Slideshow: Here are the top 10 Fords coming to Mecum Indy 2026.

By Brett Foote | 2026-05-04 13:49:49


VIEW MORE
story-6
5 Best / 5 Worst Ford Truck Wheels of All Time

Slideshow: The 5 best and 5 worst Ford truck wheels of all time

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-04-29 16:49:01


VIEW MORE
story-7
Ford Super Duty: 5 Things Owners LOVE, 5 Things They LOATHE!

Slideshow: Ranking the 5 things owners love about their Super Duty and 5 things they don't

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-04-29 16:36:49


VIEW MORE
story-8
Every 2026 Ford Truck Engine RANKED from WORST to FIRST!

Slideshow: Ranking all 12 Ford truck engines available in 2026.

By Michael S. Palmer | 2026-04-22 13:32:20


VIEW MORE
story-9
The Best F-150 Deal of Every Trim Level (XL through Raptor)

Slideshow: The best Ford F-150 deal for every trim level (XL through Raptor)

By Joe Kucinski | 2026-04-21 15:59:01


VIEW MORE