no there is no vacum advance ita a all mechanical distributer. and it wont run under 20 btdc

 

does this mean i need a new timing set?

 

It probably means the marks on the harmonic balancer are not correct, or the pointer on the engine is not correct.

If you make a piston stop out of a old sparkplug, you can verify the timing marks and pointer are in the right place.

Or just don't worry about it, so long as it runs good. It's obvious something is a little off somewhere, but it doesn't really matter as far as it running well.

 

ok did the spark plug thing and also found tdc and it maches perfect with the harmonic balancer. but one thing i did notice was that each time i rev up real high, like 5000rpm it seems to need more and more advance each time i rev it high. could this mean the timing chain keeps jumpin a gear each time it revs high?

 

i also checked the slack of the chain by me turning the crank shaft with a breaker bar and my buddy watching the rotor. i have about 15" of play at the end of the breaker bar (about 30-40*) before the rotor turns. i think this proves the the timing chain is loose and possibly jumping teeth? is what im saying pointing to the chain being loose and jumping or not? ive pretty much checked everything to be checked and it seems all good.

 

If it jumps a tooth, it's going to hardly run if it runs at all. You automatically compensate for chain wear simply by turning the dist till the timing light reads what you want. What you can't compensate for is late valve timing caused by the stretched chain.

The timing is supposed to advance as you rev the engine. That's what the weights and springs are for inside the dist.

 

well all i know is that every time it revs high it gets worse and worse. i had it running and 20 btdc and reved to 5000 and then itwouldent idle. it would drop so low that it died and has no power and bacfires but if i turn the distributer it runs good again till i rev high again so somethings not right.

 

One problem you can run into is using springs that are too light. The weights can fly out and stick if the springs are not strong enough to pull them back with authority.

I would put back in what the dist came with or use what the factory tech guy told you to use.

Also, I would set the dist back to about 14 degrees or so. You may have to reset the idle and mixture screws, but it should run fine at that setting.

I would set it so it runs like a normal engine with moderate power. I would then read up on all this timing stuff, and then you can start playing around, but always have a baseline that you can fall back on.

 

the whole reason i got msd is to fix why the engine doesent idle when cold and not cut out and sputter. the msd made it better till i reved it and now i have to run 30 btdc so it will run right. and it just sounds different than before the problems started. this isnt something normal. it will barely run below 20 btdc and idles perfect between 30 and 60 btdc. thats not normal,there has to be something mechanically wrong here. btw i used the proper springs the tech told me to use. one heavy silver and one light silver

but im really getting pissed at this problem, its nothing obvious but theres definately something wrong. sometimes it wants to run right and then it just acts stupid if i rev it high. and now im scared to advance the timing further cause im out of money and cant afford new pistons or valves or anything related to detonation.

is there even a possible chance for a jumped tooth or teeth or loose chain is causing this bs? this is killing me

 

what else could this problem possibly be? every single other thing that it could be is all bran new. new msd distributer,box,coil,8.5mm wires,e3 plugs everything new and hasent changed the original problem that much.

 

I don't know what you are doing and what sort of timing light you have, but there is no way this engine is going to run right with the initial timing set at 30 BTDC. I believe you are looking at something wrong, hooked to the wrong sparkplug wire, or just using the wrong terminology.

Why don't you get someone else to look at it. You can work on something over and over, and get frustrated, and then someone else can roll in there that knows a little bit about it, and see something right away. Then you can beat yourself up for missing something obvious, but your truck will run and you can chalk it up to something learned.

 

Wow, are you 100% sure the balancer isn't slipping? I don't see how you could even start this engine with the initial timing set that far BTDC, it should kick back against the starter like a mule.

 

ok i pulled the timing cover off and found that it hadnot jumped a gear but it has 2.5 inches of play on the chain so could this be causing this?

 

i also brought my harmonic balancer to the parts store to match it with a new one and they matched perfectly so the harmonic balancer has not slipped or anything like that.

 

where the balancer slips is on the key on the crankshaft. the only thing that keeps that big balancer from turning is one crankshaft key, was yours good? if you are in there i reccomend replacing that timing set....i just bought the cloyes fully adjustable, installed it and degreed it perfectly, fully adjustable is the way to go as my cam was off by 2 degrees from what my cam card had said it should open/close valves at....but if you are still having this problem after a new timing chain it is all that msd or the way you install it...here is the cylinder location if you look at engine from front to back. As you can see number 1 is closest to radiator, left hand side or passenger side.
4-8
3-7
2-6
1-5
Also i would put tight springs in to just get your initial correct, it should run on 6-15 btdc, make sure if you have a vacuum advance, you cap it off. With the timing light pointing down inbetween the alternator and water pump pulley, (obviously high enough up so you dont get it hit by the fan, you point it at the crank with a tin L-shaped bracket just off the crank and see what marks you are at, take and mark what you would like to see for timing at initial. Try 12*, if it pings, decrease, if it lags increase.
Sometimes if you just dont know enough about this stuff, it is better handled by a professional or just someone else looking at it, god knows i have had problems, that if i knew what was wrong with it i would have been able to fix it, but your eyes and mind decieves you after messing with something so often. Good luck