The engine on my 93 Ford Clubwagon van w/ 302 c.i. stopped suddenly as my wife was driving along. The engine will turn over but not fire. All electrical accessories are working. I've checked alt, ignition control module, ign coil, fuses under dash, fuses in power distribution box under hood and all are OK.
The wire from coil to distributor has continuity, but no spark is appearing at the plugs. A friend suggested it may have jumped out of timing. There was a recent timing change on 4/27/2010. The engine is a replacement that was installed Nov 2009. I got it back with sluggish acceleration. Took it to another mechanic who said the time has to be set when the engine is warm. He found the timing set to 5 degrees after TOC. He changed it to 10 degrees before TOC. It ran perfect after resetting with plenty of acceleration. If it has only jumped timing, shouldn't I still see spark at the plug with it out (and grounded) while the engine is spinning? I see no spark at all and not even a sputter of life when the engine turns over. Any other suggestions? I thought of the crank position sensor, but not sure where to find it.

 

> I see no spark at all and not even a sputter of life when the engine turns over.

If 1993 (sorry, my manuals are not here at the moment) still uses the TFI module on the distributor that would be the very first thing I would change.

The second thing I would look at is a bad ign. switch or cyl.

The 3rd thing is a bad head lamp switch.

Buy a $10 ign. starter/turn over switch and jump the starter sol. and see if you can start the vehicle with the ign in the on position. The wire may be bad on the starter sol. or the wire itself has fallen off.

 

It does sound like the crank position sensor (AKA PIP sensor) that is inside the distributor.
You need to change the distributor.

You need to check for any codes as they will tell you for sure.

 

To recardod

The TFI aka ignition control module is new I replaced it. It sits in a heat sink behind the battery on the driver side fender wall. Had to remove the battery to replace it.

Funny you should mention ignition switch. Both my wife and son mentioned seeing a wisp of smoke coming from the steering column and a burning smell. But since the starter turns the engine over I discounted the ign switch. I found that spark gets to the distributor from the coil but not to the plugs so the next thing I will try is replacing the distr. cap and rotor. Those were new in Nov. 09. Starter motor was also replace with brand new in Nov.09

If thats not it I will take the steering wheel off and examine ign switch for burnt wires. Thanks...


To Subford

The crank position sensor is on the rear of the engine not IN the distributor. I was going to check the CPS before I replace it.
The distributor is new and was installed in Nov. '09. There are no modules in it that I could see, just wiring. Thanks...

 

The crank position sensor is in the distributor. We have replaced a lot of them.
The knock sensor is on the rear of the engine.
All Ford gas engines from 1987-1996 have them in the Distributor.

The crank position sensor is also called the PIP sensor and is inside the Stator and the Stator is inside the distributor.

By the way the Ignition Switch is not under the steering wheel either. It is on top of the column down near the floor board and you do not have to remove the steering wheel to replace it. You check its plug to see if it has melted without taking anything apart.

But if you have smoke from that area and it will not run sounds like you have a burned up computer. Take it out and open it up and see if the board is burned.

The crank position sensor, AKA PIP sensor, AKA Stator is at 4 & 8 in the diagram below:


/

 

You are right, my mistake, its the knock sensor on the back of engine. My ignorance is revealed. I did not go far enough into the distributor to see underneath.
I was obviously confused about the ignition switch too. Thats why these forums are so great. You guys help those of us who know just enough to be dangerous. Whew! You save me some more dollars. That diagram is helpful. Is that from a online subscription site or your personal software? That is what I would like to have access to.

I have not smelled the smoke at all since I got it home and been working on it. I have turned the engine over several times and still do not smell or see anything smoking. May be all burned out. When you say 'burned up computer' what part are you referring to? Where is it located? Thanks again...

 

The PCM Computer is located in the off center of the firewall as in the photo below.

But as I said above you need to see if you have any codes in memory before replacing anything.




Left rear of engine compartment, near brake master cylinder (A6)

Images from the Ford shop manuals.
/

 

Before you go much further, check that the distributor is turning. Pull the cap and turn it over. I had a 351 that went dead in the road and found the shear pin, on the bottom shaft gear that runs off the cam, had sheared and the distributor shaft wasn't turning. You can see it in the above illustration. A whole 39 cents put me back on the road. It's worth a shot.

 

Sub,

Where can I get that shop manual?

 

The 1993 Econoline Electrical & Vacuum Troubleshooting Manual
Price: $27.00

Go to this link:
1993 Econoline Electrical & Vacuum Troubleshooting Manual - Helm Incorporated

/

 

Got it!!!!!!

 

Great! Glad to see you posted the manual link. I'll look into it.

Haven't looked under the hood this week. Lots of rain here and
hard to work on it even under the carport. Have to use the wife's car
to juice the battery enough to turn it over, but the yard is too wet to
drive to the front of the van. Will have to push the van around so the
front is easily accessible.

My next step was to test the crank position sensor. Is there a simple method to do that? Do I pull the distr and take the CPS out or can it
be tested while its in the distr and the distr in the block? I viewed a few youtube videos of testing CPS that were helpful. One guy used a
spare CPS connector with long wires to connect to his multimeter.
Whats the best way to test CPS for this vehicle.

Regarding the ignition switch, I visually inspected it but found nothing
burnt or having a smell. The burning smell and wisp of smoke is the
strangest part of this whole thing. I never smelled but my wife and son did. My sense of smell must be going.

 

To test the CPS better know as the PIP sensor read these two PDFs.
Read the articles:

Ford Distributor Ignition Diagnosis
http://www.wellsmfgcorp.com/pdf/counterp_v8_i2_2004.pdf

Ford Distributor Ignition Diagnosis part 2
http://www.wellsmfgcorp.com/pdf/counterp_v8_i3_2004.pdf

/

 

> a wisp of smoke coming from the steering column and a burning smell.
> The burning smell and wisp of smoke is the strangest part of this whole thing.

The ignition cyl. (not to be confused with ign. switch) might be bad. Smoke usually is a burnt wire, so, I would say find the burnt wire. There were recalls for Ford vehicles setting themselves on fire for this very reason.

The head lamp switch basically feeds the whole vehicle in the earlier Fords. Many times the headlamp switch will take the damage without blowing a fuse and the circuit that is blown is clearly visible because the plastic around the wire connector will be melted.

Since these recall applies to 1993 and they saw smoke

General Article Detail Page - Ford

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/8...d-recalls.html

 

I am in the process of elec. testing the CPS aka PIP though I really have my doubts about it. The CPS was installed in Nov '09 with new distrib. I know new parts fail too, but I just have a strong feeling given all the work I've done on this van. Its just intuition but I tend to think its an old part.
Anyway first I was checking the voltage to the ingition control module and was hoping subford could tell me what color wires will have to check for voltage. I checked all the contacts in the connector and found two with voltage. The beige wire with a thin yellow strip and the red wire with a thin green stripe both have voltage to them when the key is on.
Then checking the female connectors to the CPS and getting btwn 3 -4 ohms. Can anyone tell me what color the wires are to be testing for output voltage through the CPS connector? An what voltage I should be looking for?

Think I'll change the ignition switch and head lamp/light switch since all are relatively inexpensive parts. I don't know fully understand what role each play into preventing spark from distrib to plugs except for what was said about the head lamp switch controlling the whole show. The engine will turn over but no fire to the plugs. Put on new coil and getting strong spark. Another thing peculiar is I don't hear the usual buzzing of the fuel pump when turning the key on.

If its the CPS I am in for big trouble. I costs $65 and it looks like from subford's diagram that the center shaft of the distrib. has to be pulled out after the gear on the bottom end is removed. But it does not look like there is enough overhead room in this van's engine compartment to pull the distributor out. Is that the only way to get the CPS out? Seems like it should be removable while distrib. is installed. All the contributions are greatly appreciated!!