hi guys, since eventually i will be getting a tuner chip for my e99 f350SD CC i have been doing research on the available custom tuner's out there and all seem to charge an exorbitant amount for "extra" tunes to me this seems ridiculous when the initial chip is between 199-400 dollars, no i realize that most are "custom" tuned to your needs and your specific vehicle but a 99 f350sd cc with automatic and stock tires is the same as the next 99 f350sd cc automatic with stock tires, so eventually there are enough "custom tunes" to not justify the 50 dollars for an extra tune. I have one of the original custom tunners ever built for the eec-iv and v a tweecerRT and have played around plenty with it on my wifes 2k focus and was able to modify all sorts of parameters and the amount of legwork involved is quite lengthy i agree but once i had something the way i liked it i hit save and saved it to my computer with a file name(which is all that any of the tuner companys are doing) and it was there for the life of the computer. so once it has been saved i dont see where the extra 50 dollars for a single tune comes in.

its not any harder to modify a tune for economy than it is to modify for hp.
it might take an extra few edits of rows in excel or whatever is being used to edit the binary file of the chip, but i still cant justify spending 50 dollars for one tune.

I would much rather pay 350 for an all in one, that i can download new tunes for and experiment around with free of charge. or at the very very least the first 2 or 3 positions stock/econo/hp free

are there any on the market like that?


I am sorry but i cannot see how these custom tunners can justify it no matter how much they say it is "programmed" to each individual truck it still comes from a basic file with 90 percent of the original file still intact and the same as every other psd out there. its not like they are writing the code brand new each time if they were than 50 dollars for a new tune would be worth it, but i know better.

i would love to hear from some of the actual people who charge for each tune, i am not trying to start a debate but i need to justify it to myself to buy a tuner for it(not sure yet if my tweecer will work)

at least with the tweecer i can read my stock fords bin file edit it play around with it and swap tunes with other people free of charge.

i can go download cbaza for a mustang 5.0 slap it in my a9l etc all day long not have to pay a dime.

p.s. i would be perfectly fine paying 10-20 dollars per tune because that is what i think a pre-saved file being electronically emailed and electronically uploaded is worth

 

Using your logic, Microsoft should only be charging a couple dollars for each copy of Windows, since once the program is written everyone gets the same copy. Your paying the guy for what he knows too.

If you search a little harder you'll find that I believe it's PHP offers software to make your own tunes, and I thought I read DP does or is in the process of offering something like that. Good luck making your own from scratch. I've used the tweecer myself; I really have no idea but have a feeling it's a much steeper learning curve than tuning an EEC-IV 5.0.

 

actually that windows analogy does not fit.

if i buy a chip i am buying the windows software as the chip is pre-programed with the necessary software to enable a tune to override the factory ford eec.

any subsequent additions to that would be a windows update, which if i recall is free from microsoft, up until the time they release there completely reworked operating system.

if a tuner company wanted to charge me a flat fee for there chip and the software(including 1 or 2 basic tunes such as windows home/professional etc) and then they said hey we just reworked our tune 2 for more fuel economy it will be 50 dollars that would be different.

as for the tweecer i have no doubt it will be a learning curve but the custom chip tuner had to start somewhere right? if youve used tweecer than you know its not as hard as everyone thinks and if it was as hard as everyone thinks than yes feel free to pay someone for what they know.

i for one am happy to pay someone for what they know but if thats all it is then i would think that either A. the chip would be cheaper than 399(the only reason it is that expensive is because people will pay it and there is no one out there that will build the chip and sell it cheaper yet etc. supply and demand) and the tunes would be more expensive.

small analogy from where i am coming from

i repair mitsubishi based ecu's just about anything from 89 plymouth colt to 96 geo tracker to unknown mitsubishi's even you have never heard of. it costs a maximum of $15 dollars at most to fix each board, usually in the neighborhood of $1 dollar in parts, add in solder and solder wick and laquer spray to seal the board and its maybe $2 after all is said and done, then usually it takes 15-30 minutes sometimes longer so say even $100 an hour for labor rate at 30 minutes thats $50 dollars so a total of $52 and the ecu is ready for the customer to pick up, i charge $100 flat fee if i go over an hour then i eat the time(because it shouldnt take me longer than that in the first place) so my customer has his ecu and he is happy because he paid 100 dollars to me and i offer excellent customer service(just like most chipers do) ive gone so far to drive couple hours to a customers place to help out.

now there are numerous places on ebay and online that do the same repairs for the same cars i do and they charge anywhere between 175 and 400 dollars(depending upon the computer even though its the same repair technique and usally the same problem) and the best customer service they can offer is for you to send it back if it doesnt work right, it takes them roughly the same amount of time and energy as it does me(maybe even less because i dont do this day in and day out and they do)

i could quite easily charge 175-400 dollars but i dont and the reason i dont is i cannot justify to my self that this repair job is worth 175-400 dollars that to me is a total rip, and i cannot do that to my customers.

this is just my opinion it just seems excessive between the cost of the chip and the tunes and like i said if a tunner wants to chime in and explain to me the process that they actually go through to justify 45/50/75 for a tune i would appreciate it, if they dont then its no skin off my nose i will probably swap in my tweecer and see what i can do.

 

It's the same as paying a buck per song on I-Tunes or $15 for a CD at the store. Once an album is recorded it only costs about 25 cents to burn the CDs for sale.

It's called intellectual property. The tuners need to make money to stay in business. During the developement of the most extreme tunes you can bet some engines let go. How would you like to eat that cost. Do you charge the first guy 20 grand and give the programing away to everyone else?, or do you charge 50 bucks per tune and hope you sell enough to come out ahead.

 

I don't think any of the tuners will come on here and give you an explanation on why they charge what they charge. If a customer asked me why I charge what I charge for something, I tell them, I opened this store to make money, not to save you money. There is overhead in any business you open and you can't make money giving chit away.

Seems like you have a choice here, either buy what is offered or tune your own. Sounds like you know what your doing with the tuning software, so that is the way I would go if I were you.

 

Watching this thread..........closley

 

Ditto.

If tuner companies charged just enough to cover the cost of emailing and saving files, they wouldn't stay in business.
You are also paying for support. If a tune isn't right or something happens during shipping, you get replacement or a fix without charging you again.
Worth it to me to pay $45 per tune if a year down the road, I sell my truck and get a different one and they will re-burn it for a minimal charge instead of full price again....if any. (Depends on who you go through). And their knowledge is priceless.

 

AHHHH!!!!! STRANGER DANGER! STRANGER DANGER!!!


We are watching you too!!!

 

It's called voting with your dollar. If you don't like what someone charges for a service, see if you can find it cheaper. If you think you can do as good or a better job with your own skill set and your time isn't worth the money someone is asking for their hard spent time developing something, then don't buy it, do it yourself. It's a pretty simple decision. I can mow my own lawn every Saturday and take 2 hours of my free time to do it, or I can spend $30 to free up that time for me to use doing something else I enjoy and not having to worry about it. My time is worth more than $15 an hour to me.

 

just gonna throw this in there...

buying tunes would be the as buying programs for your computer i.e. microsoft word office etc....

if I recall correctly, DP will update the tunes you have purchased with the most recent versions of the tunes as they are developed free of any charge except for sending your chip to them to have it re burned (if you have a f5).

honestly is it really too much to pay 45 bucks for a tune that can be updated for the life of the chip? not to mention savings you have as a result of the tune in gas milage, or the enjoyment you get out of it. You are also paying for the peace of mind of knowing that you have a quality tune in your vehicle.

 

There are a few on here that have done their own tuning. But it takes time, patience and know-how, not everyone here has all three; that's why we pay someone else to do it. Sounds like you know how to do the tuning, if I were you I'd get the software and do it myself. I think it'd be fun to tune my own truck, but I just don't have the time.

x2 We deal with that on our GPS/yield monitors on the farm. We have to pay $750 for an unlock code to use different features like auto guidance or rate controllers.

The trucks may not differ very much from one to the other, but the driving habits do. I may want my truck to shift differently in a tow tune than another guy. They are programming to your truck, but also to the person driving it.

 

thats the kind of answer i was trying to get, because the way i read there website and everything, its a set amount for each tune and i was under the impression that every tune or change after that was another set amount to me thats rediculous but if most places charge a flat fee for a 80econo and then a year later when someone else has a similar truck and says "hey wouldnt it be better if this feature were like this" and then i want that feature like that oh i gotta pay another ?

 

so i dont have a right to ask where my money is being spent? or why should i buy from you? thats part of business my man if you cant handle people asking....i know if i was going to do business with you and you told me that i would say thanks for the answer and walk out the door and then tell all my friends what you told me. there is a point you can make money and then there is just price gauging people.

in my professional carreer i am certainly paid for what i know not what i do, but my knowledge gets tested on a daily basis and when that machine breaks down and the company is losing 80-100k an hour i damn well better be able to show my work, and when that machine is up and running in less than an hour then my boss knows he is getting a bargain paying me what i am worth.

so its only fair to expect the same kind of treatment when it comes to my hard earned money.


Basically what am i getting for 50 per tune when the tunes have maybe 1 or 2 fields different from each other?

 

your absolutely right it is voting with my dollar and just like voting i have the right to ask where my dollar is being used etc.

now take your mow the lawn analagy say you assumed your lawn took 2 hrs to mow and it was more like 75 dollars to mow your lawn and you were gone those 2 hours everytime. then one day you have to turn around say 20 minutes into it and the person mowing your lawn was packing his mower up and done, would it be worth it then? or how about if they were charging you 100 to do it? at what point would you draw the line?

im not saying that each tune isnt worth money, but i am saying what am i getting for the same cost as another tune if there isnt anything but one or two items changed?

 

all in all i am simply asking is the 50 dollars or so per tune worth it? do you get your moneys worth especially after spending so much on a chip.