They did this when the 6.0 first came out. I don't think they came out with the EGR system until 06-07, somewhere around there. They used credits and paid the rest off. They were setup for that though, I don't think Ford had the luxury, but I could be wrong about that. I think that also put Dodge in the position to be complaint now without having to use Urea as well.

 

I don't disagree with anyone in this discussion, but I definately agree with =Pit=. I am 52 yrs old. Since 1975 I have bought nothing but Fords (except for one big 1974 Corvette brain fart I had). First one was a brand new 1975 Elite.......Yes I started off with them because that is what my dad weened me on, BUT it turned out that they WERE the best IMHO! In all elements of the product. Not that Chevy's engines were not great. Thats proven. But looking at the product as a whole, Fords were better to me. I continued with them because they NEVER gave me any problems. I can count on one hand how many times I have taken one back to the dealer under warranty. Pintos, Mustang II, Mustangs, Rangers, Thunderbirds, F150's....you name it. I've had em all and several of each.
The bottom line is I don't care what you say, when you pay that kind of money for a vehicle, you should be able to expect reliable performance when you follow the normal maintenance requirements, and use it within design parameters.

That being said, I think it is obvious now that Ford/International screwed the pooch to some extent in the case of this engine. You don't have to go to a forum, or even own one, to know this, if you are a car/truck enthusiast and listen to what people say about their issues. I know guys who have had no issues at all with their 6.0's. But a couple who have........ Because of my loyalty I am taking my chances.

 

I don't disagree with you in your sentiments, however, the problem lays with what is in bold. How many people have used these newer trucks that weren't within design parameters? Either in performance aspect or used the truck for something that it wasn't designed to be used for (ie grocery getter). Now if people knew the particulars that made the trucks a little more finicky, then they could have mitigated a lot of issues that are out there. These "issues" weren't present in the 7.3, which further didn't help things out, but it can't be helped if people assumed certain things.

Like I said, I'm not trying to mitigate the issues that might be there caused by Ford and/or International. What I don't like is the band wagon that owners easily get on to and blame them needlessly for failures that were more then likely the owners fault. I think if you were to take out the needless complaints from those that didn't know the parameters to operate these newer diesel vehicles in, the dire outlook on the 6.0 wouldn't be as dire. Problem is never be able to do that.

 

My 05 with 62k goes in monday for head gaskets.
Problem is I can't 'blame' Ford as I have '0' service history on the truck.
Did the previous owner drive it like a fool? Have a 'tuner' on 'race' an pull 10,000lbs up mountains?
Yes, I am disappointed but can't blame the 6.0l.
Now I plan on keeping the truck for many years and know how to drive it and maintain it- only then can I way in and 'RANT'
Love the site & all you guys' insights!!!
PS Service Manger says I have head-bolt fatigue???

 

What will that cost ya? Did they say?

 

I think I'm losing some people in what I'm saying. Yes there are legitimate ones that are deserving of people's anger, is it as many as people seem to think? I highly doubt that.

Let me give you another example.

I see people on here say that they see 4-5 6.0s in service bays, they automatically assume that because they are in there, that they are in there for something major. Could it be? Sure. Does it mean that they are in fact there for that very reason? No it does not. They never mentioned that they talked to the tech that was working on it, or anything like that. They just see 6.0 in the service bay and it is automatically crap. They don't know if someone ran an Edge in there or what.

I see a lot of people that do stuff like that. Other people buy that crap. They don't have enough to support what they are concluding.

Not at all. Just be sure that you are sure that it hasn't been something that you have done that caused the problems instead of automatically blaming the engine.

Another case in point. There was a guy on here that was just ranting and raving about the head bolts, because they blew on him and he just heard about what a piece of crap that they are.

Well it turns out that not only did he run the Edge Juice on Street when he towed(I've known a couple of people that have towed with racing tunes), but he also had 10% hills to deal with hauling 10k. He didn't bother letting the engine warm up. Gassers you dont' have to do that so much, on diesels you do. They fact that 6.0s have "wait to start" pigtail light should tell people that there is some waiting involved. Plugging in a block heater for some should be another clue.

How many people that went from gassers to diesels during the end of the 7.3 and the early 6.0s might have made the same mistake of not allowing the engine heat up before they really started to work it? Or did other things that were a big no-no and didn't realize it and just blamed the engine?

There are so many inconsistancies that if you were to actually look into the nitty gritty of the individual trucks, it may not be as simple as "oh it's just another 6.0 in the service bay". Were there bad ones from the get go, sure, there are that way with any vehicle no matter the price tag. As long as they are being designed and ultimately in some shape or fashion built by men that will always be the case.

 

[quote=tex25025;9111140]
I see people on here say that they see 4-5 6.0s in service bays, they automatically assume that because they are in there, that they are in there for something major. Could it be? Sure. Does it mean that they are in fact there for that very reason? No it does not. They never mentioned that they talked to the tech that was working on it, or anything like that. They just see 6.0 in the service bay and it is automatically crap. They don't know if someone ran an Edge in there or what.

/quote]

Last time I was in the shop probably 50% of the superduties had the cabs lifted! I would say its fair to assume major work was being done on these trucks

 

Major work yes, but do you know the specifics of why it's in there? Owner caused versus truly a design flaw or whatever? Sure cabs lifted would signify a good labor intensive job, but it doesn't tell you rather it was the "truck's fault" or the "owner's fault". You would have to assume that part unless you went over there and asked and that there were giving you a complete and honest answer. That's what get's me is the assumption that people make. Now it might be an issue with the truck, but it might not, the mere fact of the cab being lifted doesn't mean one way or the other as to cause, just that it's a good size job.

Oh by the way, the person that I was talking to that said that, the cabs weren't lifted. You also have the person that sees a 6.0 on a flatbed being hauled somewhere and you automatically assume it's because of engine problems. Stuff like that that gets me.

 

I thought you would take this position! They were having the head gaskets replaced!

Ask me how I know! Want more details?

 

I would imagine it would have to have been something like that if the cab was up. I don't know many other cab off situations with regard to the 6.0 except for things related to the headbolts. I wasn't disputing a good size job that they were doing. I was questioning the merits of it. Tuner caused, driver driving like an idiot caused or headbolts stretching on their own. Turbo sticking etc. Then, of course, are the people being truthful with what they are telling you. Or are they in possession of all the facts etc. You have to evaluate all this stuff as well. People do blame things, but the might have missed something that also could have caused things to happen.

I'm also not saying that there aren't legitimate from the factory issues either. This may indeed be one of them.

What I am complaining about is the assumption that just the mere fact that it's in the bay maybe/maybe not with cab lifted that it was something caused by the damned 6.0 engine and how crappy that is.

There is a difference between those. It's nitpicking, but there is a difference.

Edit: I also have to evaluate the fact that I'm getting this 3rd hand from you(for sure hearsay) and you do have a very clear position on things. I have to take that into consideration as well.

 

Here we go:

(1) truck F450 was an oil field truck that pretty much tows a gooseneck where every it goes.
(4) trucks F350 were local natural gas company trucks with koenig bins loaded to the gills that after the repair were getting auctioned off. This company has literally sold off all its 6.0 psd trucks this year because of reliability reasons.

The common theme with these trucks are there not your grocery getter type trucks. They are work trucks that tow heavy loads pretty much were every where they go. No tuners, just hard worked trucks... Isn't that what the Super Duty line is for?

The other thing I learned during this unwanted visit is that alot of the 6.0's get sold right after the warrenty ends.

Now evaluate, cross analyze,digest and regress however you like...

 

It still comes down to how they were driven, how they were maintained, etc. You can not make a conclusion without more knowledge. If they were all from one company, then my conclusion could be that the company is a pennypinching company and they shortchanged the trucks on maintenance parts and intervals, did not allow them the proper warm-up or idled them too much (etc). Who knows if my conclusion is correct or not - simply not enough information.

Even with that said, reaching a conclusion by watching one dealership is like saying you can make a proper assessment of a million trucks based on a sampling of 10 or even one hundred trucks - simply not valid to do so.

 

I can assure you these trucks didn't live an easy life...

I'm not making any conclusion here just reported a single senerio that I felt needed to be mention in this thread. I could post more but then I would be called a 6.0 basher so I limited to this one senerio.

There were two different company's truck here. The one with 4 trucks had two trucks with intermittent head gasket issues that didn't get fixed until they were ready to sell them which seemed kinda odd.

 

The last 6.0 on a flatbed I saw being hauled was my truck and it was due to engine problems!

I believe we discussed that earlier this year...

 

BTW... My last visit to the Ford garage was not due to the engine, but I needed a brake job at 125k miles... Outstanding brakes so I went back with Ford brand!