braking issue
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Freshman User
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 38
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From: Kingsbury, TX
braking issue
i have a second issue in addition tothe one i posted on earlier
first specs:
89 F250 extra cab 351 EFI V8 4x4 5 speed
my brakes feel VERY soft. i have bleed them several time and even replaced the Brake master Cyl (it was leaking at the booster). the truck does stop and it will even lock up the brakes if you really romp on it. but it just does not feel like the truck is slowing down very fast.
I know it is not a car and isnt going to stop on a dime but my dads 96 F350 stops ALOT faster than mine.
Any ideas? This is going to be my sons truck in about 6months and i would really like for it to be a safe as possible before he starts driving it
first specs:
89 F250 extra cab 351 EFI V8 4x4 5 speed
my brakes feel VERY soft. i have bleed them several time and even replaced the Brake master Cyl (it was leaking at the booster). the truck does stop and it will even lock up the brakes if you really romp on it. but it just does not feel like the truck is slowing down very fast.
I know it is not a car and isnt going to stop on a dime but my dads 96 F350 stops ALOT faster than mine.
Any ideas? This is going to be my sons truck in about 6months and i would really like for it to be a safe as possible before he starts driving it
FTE Legend
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 31,930
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From: Ottawa, Ontario
Sounds a lot like my truck and apparently one cause is ballooning rubber flex hoses. I'm going to be replacing mine soon with braided steel versions though even new rubber hoses would likely make a difference.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2005
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The RABS module is a solenoid valve block that is supposed to prevent both rear brakes locking up at the same time. It is on the inside of the left side frame rail about level with the drivers door hinges.
The sequence for bleeding is right rear then left rear then RABS module then right front then left front.
The RABS module has a bleed screw on it just like the brakes.
The sequence for bleeding is right rear then left rear then RABS module then right front then left front.
The RABS module has a bleed screw on it just like the brakes.
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Freshman User
Joined: May 2004
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From: Kingsbury, TX
ok i just went out side to look for it so i would know what i am doing when i get home and i found that my parking brake cable is hanging down with ALOT of slack. i dont ever use it so i did not realize that it was WAY loose like that. I know it was tight when i replaced the rear shoes because i tested the brakes with the parking brake pedal. Any ideas there?
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Lead Driver
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,670
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From: Sand Lake, MI
You said you replaced the master cylinder, did you bench bleed it first and then the lines?
You say its soft/spongy having not done so would create that condition.
If its just excessive travel and not spongy then its rear shoes not adjusted properly, say doing so while forgetting you had the park brake locked on at the time.
If its soft/spongy due to any air in the system the pedal will pump up, just due to excessive travel it will not.
You say its soft/spongy having not done so would create that condition.
If its just excessive travel and not spongy then its rear shoes not adjusted properly, say doing so while forgetting you had the park brake locked on at the time.
If its soft/spongy due to any air in the system the pedal will pump up, just due to excessive travel it will not.
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Freshman User
Joined: May 2004
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From: Kingsbury, TX
yes i did bench bleed the MC then the lines
and no pumping the brakes does not stiffen the pedal.
the pedal is VERY soft. if you romp on the brakes they feel stiff for a second then they go soft.
something else i just noticed when i went to get a burger for lunch, on my trailer brake the light that comes on when i hit the brakes flickers and some times does not come on at all. do yall think they might be related? ( i dont think so )
and no pumping the brakes does not stiffen the pedal.
the pedal is VERY soft. if you romp on the brakes they feel stiff for a second then they go soft.
something else i just noticed when i went to get a burger for lunch, on my trailer brake the light that comes on when i hit the brakes flickers and some times does not come on at all. do yall think they might be related? ( i dont think so )
Lead Driver
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,670
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From: Sand Lake, MI
also when the peddal is all the way to the floor there is a kind of hissing sound that concerns me.
I missed this one, again could just be a sign the pedal is over traveling.
I know you said you did but first thing I'd do is lift it up and double check the rear shoes for proper adjustment. You might have a rod length adjustment issue after replacing the MC but lets assume for now you don't, it should be fine.
Make sure the rear shoes lightly drag on the drums as you rotate the wheels, spin the star wheel until you feel and hear the shoes dragging.
You shouldn't be able to drift the star wheel fore and aft more then slightly once set set right. If the star wheel drifts fore and aft more then that, say moves 1/4" for example you have to much play yet. Not saying you did but make sure the park brake is fully released and relaxed before hand or you'll never get the shoes adjusted right. A slack cable doesn't prove the park brake is fully relaxed, not here in MI at least.
I missed this one, again could just be a sign the pedal is over traveling.
I know you said you did but first thing I'd do is lift it up and double check the rear shoes for proper adjustment. You might have a rod length adjustment issue after replacing the MC but lets assume for now you don't, it should be fine.
Make sure the rear shoes lightly drag on the drums as you rotate the wheels, spin the star wheel until you feel and hear the shoes dragging.
You shouldn't be able to drift the star wheel fore and aft more then slightly once set set right. If the star wheel drifts fore and aft more then that, say moves 1/4" for example you have to much play yet. Not saying you did but make sure the park brake is fully released and relaxed before hand or you'll never get the shoes adjusted right. A slack cable doesn't prove the park brake is fully relaxed, not here in MI at least.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2005
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All good points from danr1. Recheck the adjustment of the rear shoes. If they weren`t centered or the parking brake was hanging on when you adjusted them the last time they could still be way off. Also bleed the RABS module, it can hold a mountain of air.
My first guess for the cable is a broken cable. Check the cables that run from the equalizer to each rear wheel and the one that runs from the equalizer to the pedal. Second guess would be that a cable has become detatched from a brake shoe lever or the lever is detached from a shoe.
My first guess for the cable is a broken cable. Check the cables that run from the equalizer to each rear wheel and the one that runs from the equalizer to the pedal. Second guess would be that a cable has become detatched from a brake shoe lever or the lever is detached from a shoe.
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Freshman User
Joined: May 2004
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From: Kingsbury, TX
well i guess i will recheck the adjustments on the rear brakes and bleed the brakes again in addition to the RABS. Thanks for the help guys. ill post up tonight or tomorrow if it works or not or if i have any other questions
Lead Driver
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,670
Likes: 13
From: Sand Lake, MI
None of that means you don't have to bled the rabs valve as Lazy K pointed out. You opened the system, it needs bled regardless of rear shoe adjustment.
He also makes good points on the condition of the cable itself, detached or broke maybe. However if the shoes/arm does not fully retract the cable will hang with excessive slack showing.
Here in MI I simply remove the park brake hardware in the drums, at least on my trucks. Especially those with auto transmissions, manuals no but need used daily to keep them free.
The cables rust up bad from lack of use on trucks with autos in the casing leading to the drums, all it takes is someone to try and use not knowing or thinking about it to burn up the rear end in a hurry.
He also makes good points on the condition of the cable itself, detached or broke maybe. However if the shoes/arm does not fully retract the cable will hang with excessive slack showing.
Here in MI I simply remove the park brake hardware in the drums, at least on my trucks. Especially those with auto transmissions, manuals no but need used daily to keep them free.
The cables rust up bad from lack of use on trucks with autos in the casing leading to the drums, all it takes is someone to try and use not knowing or thinking about it to burn up the rear end in a hurry.
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Freshman User
Joined: May 2004
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From: Kingsbury, TX
ok i have looked under the driver's door in the frame rail and i dont see ANYTHING attached to the brake line from the engine bay all the way too the cross member where it goes to a rubber line to the axle tube. is it possible that i dont have a RABS module?
Lead Driver
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,670
Likes: 13
From: Sand Lake, MI
Sounds like someone already did away with it, wouldn't be the first.
Should if nothing else find the harness connector for it either hanging there or tucked in someplace in that area.
Anyway guess no need to bleed it then!
Should if nothing else find the harness connector for it either hanging there or tucked in someplace in that area.
Anyway guess no need to bleed it then!