I can name quite a few trucks right off the top of my head on stock bottom ends that have been over 500 for quite a while.

At least two off the top of my head over 600 on stock bottoms.

Hell, there's a guy that's been over 700 on a stock bottom for over a year now.

Girdles might be nice insurance, but not nessasary for a 5-600 build by any means.

Thing you gotta realize, is there is no such thing as a magic combo to make power in these things. Parts need to be evaluated for what they are, and what they need to support them. If your ICP is insufficient, your PW gets wide, which further degrades ICP, and guess what one of the factors affecting timing is? Yup, ICP. So, if you half *** the truck and don't put the right parts in the right places when you're dumping enough fuel for 5-600, then boom.

If you make sure you've built a quality system, and every part on the engine is gonna work properly with the part next to it, and you have quaility toooons, there is no reason why forged rods and the block holding them can't live at 600.

 

Agreed... Cant add any more without getting banned again...

 

Since this thread is being read by some experienced folks and some newbies to the world of the 7.3 diesel, we really should keep the replies balanced.

How many trucks do you know currently North of the 500 hp range on a stock bottom end? Assuming you've been playing around the 7.3 for a while, how many trucks do you know that blew up North of 500? or even 400? Looks like a very small percentage of those who tried actually made it, and of those that did, how many did it on their first block? It's a whole lot easier to window a block than it is to build reliable HP when you start talking big numbers.

And that's without even getting into the normal type stuff like an oil jet falling off that can ruin your day on a stock engine.


Since Joe chimed in, we'll use him as a prime example. (No offense Joe)

It doesn't matter what you know, what you think you know, or how many gauges you have. It's still a lot easier to blow a motor than it is to keep it together, and the learning curve is expensive.

 

sorry everyone i have been gone working for the past few days.I see it has got everyones ***** rolling.i would like to know what rods i have first...i would like to be able to pull my race boat that is only 1100pounds plus trailer.i want the power there just to say i have it and to shut people up when all they can do is talk..thanks for all the info its gonna happen just as soon as i get a brake from work.. i want smoke some 40s like there 15in tires...and yes i know what 600hp is i have a 850hp 71 Z28 will post pics of my toys when i find out how thanks again lakeland dave

 

Lets talk about me... First motor is still fine. PMR block, north of 400hp for about 6 months and 30k miles... Went to larger injectors and had an install issue.

That block will be built with CRYO'ed STOCK IH FORGED rods soon.

Second motor... Block cracked up the #2 and #4 mains, Pistons beat to death. Cant talk about what caused that motor to go, but I know... 35k just south of 500hp

Third motor is a CL find with 140k on it when I got it... running it right now with LARGER nozzles (200%-AKA 47lpm) and a different "thingy" to make it go fast... A bit north of 500 now and not worried at all about the motor blowing, just breaking something...

There are MANY MANY trucks out there running 550-600hp on stock bottom ends. But we cant talk about what keeps them alive!

 

Sure we can, we just also need to include how many blocks were blown trying to figure out how to get there. You say your first block came out due to an injector install issue. That's not related to timing is it?

Like I said, it's not just about good tunes. Lot's of stuff goes into big HP and some of that ends up being little things that causes you to replace a block or two. Let's say 1,000 guys are running North of 550 hp. How many blocks have been blown along the way to get there? My guess is it's much more than the number of guys that made it.

You're on more than one yourself, and according to you, the first two were yanked according to different reasons. That was my point earlier. It's not just tuning you have to worry about when going for big numbers.

 

It is 85% or more tuning... sorry to say...

First motor was an injector not being tq'ed down... Mulligan, expensive one, but my fault...

Second one... cant go there, get banned again.

Third one is going strong.

My point is, its not expensive to "get there" if you listen to people who have broke things...

 

TUning tuning tuning...Joe is right. Pick wisely. Don't jump on the bandwagon. Do your research.

 

What he said...

Some basic common sense goes a long way too.

I.E. 238/30's on a small turbo and factory 17* with toooons that call for TONS of PW to completely empty that mid range injector with way to small a nozzle. Even though there's no way the turbo is gonna push enough air in there to burn that fuel.

Those are the engines that have gone boom, again, and again, and yet again, over the years.

The ones that are currently living, are because guys are finally understanding, that even a 250/200 or bigger, can be tooooned to run on the street, politely. Guys are learning how to use nozzles to inject fuel in safe windows. Guys are learning that having sufficent HPO is KEY to injecting fuel inside of a safe window. Pushing enough air in there to properly burn that fuel has been getting alot of attention lately too.

Alot more of these trucks over 600, and even trucks in the mid 5's, are porting heads, and a little shop in texas is finally approaching cams from a realistic standpoint, using physics and actual flow data to build a quality product.

99% of the motors that don't live on stock forged bottoms, don't live because some part of the equation isn't "in tune" with the rest of the set up. Could be the guy on the computer writing the tooon, could be the guy bolting in B-codes with stock nozzles on a stock HPOP.

 

I have a stock bottom end on my truck. My last dyno was 563 HP.. As soon as I heal up from my surgery, I am planning on going with a 300/200 injector which should get me in the 650 range.

 

That's the point I was trying to make. You can't just buy a good chip and slap it in and expect no problems.

 

Joe, I still don't believe you can take a nearly completely stock and get 550 for the 5k the op has to spend. I can't think of one truck that is making that kind of power on that small of a budget, at least in the 7.3 world.



Greg, you don't have a stock bottem end. Lets see, reduced comp pistons w/cut bowls, camshaft, balanced. While that isn't a fully build motor its hardly stock.

Just the injectors the op would need to make that kind of power would take up 1/3 plus of the budget. Toss in a turbo able to support that kind of hp and supporting hardware and that budget is blown.

While plenty of trucks have made north of 500 on a stock bottem end, they have greatly passed the 5k budget in replacment parts. You don't just build 550 over night on a stock bottem. It takes some tuning and a budget that allows the money to fly. I should of tried growing a money tree out back to get to where I am now, but Charlie Brown would pick it as his Christmas tree, it would be a twig.

 

Oh ok, I didn't realize the size of a piston bowl was considered "bottom end", I was thinking a girdle.. I don't have a girdle but yes I do have cut pistons and a camshaft etc..

 

True, but I have not much more than that in mine, and I'm at 450. 450 is pretty doable on roughly that budget. Maybe a bit more, depending on turbo/injector combo. My 235/100s with the van turbo are definitely too much fuel/not enough air, but the boost/back pressure ratio is right at 1:1. I do need to get some more tuning tweaks to get them dialed in, but overall, I'm okay with the combo for what it is. Just a little smoky & choppy on the idle right now....

 

u WILL NOT get 550+ on $5k like Tyler said. For one, if you want 550 plus, u still need a transmission behind it, a stocker will not hold.

Joe, u say you are north of 500, do you have a dyno sheet to prove this? Just curious, normally people have proof when claims are made, Maybe i missed the dyno sheet. Tho i do hear Butt dynos are pretty accurate, and they do save a person about $60!