we use every # on everything possible, but on the studs we use 242 (blue)
i think we may be switching to 243 which is supposedly the same stuff but its a newer formula ( we had a loctite salesperson/representative do a presentation a few weeks ago)

 

But in factory applications, that's not done because it is mechanically necessary, it's done because of liability concerns.

The factory doesn't care if you can ever get your wheels off, as long as they don't fall off and you sue them!

 

Wheel studs, inner nuts/thimbles, outer nuts. All threaded fasteners. This is starting to remind me of what I do at the office.

So that all of the above posts can make some sense, a little of the background theory is in order.

For both stud piloted and hub piloted, the studs do not transmit the driving and braking torque. The wheels are clamped against the hub by the force developed by the studs (and in the case of the stud piloted wheels, the inner nuts/thimbles) being stretched by the nuts being turned on the threads. This is the first reason why proper torque is important.

To keep the nuts from loosening due to vibration and normal use, the friction force between the faces of the internal and external threads must be high enough to resist the tendency to back off. This is the second reason.

Torque is used as a measure to determine sufficient tightening because there is no way to easily and repeatably measure stud stretch. For steel fasteners a given desired clamp load (L) for each stud, the tightening torque (T) is a function of stud diameter (D) and a factor "K". T = K*D*L.
K does vary depending on surface finish of the threads, surface condition (plain, galvanized, electrocoated, black oxide, etc), and lubrication. The big variable in wheel studs and nuts is lubrication. The designer generally selects a torque (for stud piloted wheels with 3/4" fine studs the 450 to 500 ft lbs), based on the original equipment studs and nuts, easily repeatable lubrication (in this case, clean free running threads with no lubricant) to give enough of a clamp load to properly fasten the wheels to the hub and create enough friction in the nut to stud thread contact area to keep the nut from loosening.
Adding a lubricant to this does several things. First, it reduces the value of K. A common value of K for clean, dry threads is 0.2, but a few drops of oil can reduce it to 0.17, and some anti-seize compounds can reduce it to 0.05. When you reduce K, a given torque gives a greater clamp load. If you reduce K too much, you overstress the studs, increase the deformation loading on the wheels (especially on the tapered edges of the holes on stud piloted wheels, leading to fatigue and cracks at the holes), and deform the threads. The second thing a lubricant does is reduce friction in the threads, which can make it easier for the nuts to back off.

Another point, If K is increased (this is mostly due to pitting from rust on threads, dirt or grit on threads, and damage to threads) the tightening torque will not give the required clamp load, and not properly clamp the wheels to the hub, this transfers a bending load to the studs that can lead to broken studs. This is why it is recommended that whenever you have the wheels off you should run the nuts on the studs (and the outer nuts on the inner nuts/thimbles) to make sure they are free running, and correct any damaged or tight threads you find.

If you are still awake, you pass the course!

 

Gosh, don't let yourself get labeled as one of those useless "Experts". Stu

 

yea thats why we do it, we once had an implement get to its deistination missing 9 lugnuts!!
ths boss dont like gettin sued so yea

 

Just a side note, I had a F-6 parts truck and I wanted to cut it up in smaller bite size pieces so I could scrap it. Everything was going fine until I got to the back wheels, the nuts were rust welded on. I grabbed the gas wrench and went about cutting the lug bolts off. Little did I realize that someone coated the inner studs were coated with grease. It became pretty interesting when the torches flame pierced the outer threaded cap. A flame about two feet long shot out of the nut, like a rocket booster. Very cool, but quite dangerous.

 

Ok, got all but three off.

I'm having a bit of trouble with three on the inside ones (that hold on the inside tire and are threaded inside and out).

I don't want to break them or cut them off. wd-40'd the crap out of them, and also used a lot of heat, enough to where the thing smoked. Am I just going to need to really heat the crap out of these?

Thanks

 

get em cherry red if you can, they will need replacing after aby amount of heat anyways

 

Replaced or just re-heat-treated... I am a blacksmith...

 

Replace. Besides the heating changing temper, more than likely inner or outer threads will be distorted. A NAPA store that handles heavy truck parts should have replacements, and I have gotten them online from Ryder Fleet Services.

 

The three that I'm having trouble with look different than the other 3. They're taller and have a large "L" with a little "m" under it, any idea what it means?

Must have been replaced at one point, they're spread out every other one.

Least these things don't look terribly expensive, but I'd rather not have one more thing to do, lol

 

Usually if a stud has a "L" on it, it means it's left had thread. Someone could have thrown a few left hand thread studs in there.

 

You are probably in for a big surprise. they will cost more than you might think and you need to take the hub off and take it to a place that has a press to get the old ones out and the new ones in. It'll be a lot more than that $20.00 you earlier mentioned as too much.

 

I got it off, thankfully nothing broke as I really really really did not want to change out the bolts. The three that where sticking where due to an added lip that rested not just on the slopped sides of the hole but in the inside as well, they rusted and stuck. The threads where still good. I only had to replace one (but did 2 others as well cause they where a little damaged on the square head). I did find the trick to them if they're so stuck and stripped that if you use a pipe wrench and a cheater bar on the threads (since it needed replacing anyways) that it comes right off.


I think the majority of my problem was not having the right wrench. I know they sell them for these, I just haven't found one in town yet and this is honestly the first time I would have used it and possibly the last given my plans.

But hey, have some pictures cause why not, lol:

Had to even remove the fender to really get at it, which is a whole lot easier with just one wheel on, lol:





This was the one that was really giving me the grief. The other two like it came off actually pretty easy today once I change the angle I was working. This one I was considering cutting off, but I'm glad I didn't have to... cause it would have sucked to have to replace the bolt if I screwed up:




Was a whole lot of work for just a little more clearance on the wheels (different wheel sizes). There is a good possibility I will have to lengthen the fenders as well, but we'll see when I get to that point. Change the mirrors back, well shortened them up and then put them back. I like the look, makes it look more beefy and it better balances with the width of the 600, plus I can actually see behind me, lol.



Talked to several people these past few days, one even stopped by in his '54 and said he wishes he had a '56. If I've learned anything though its to never, ever, ever sell it, cause everyone I talk to that has always regrets it considerably.

 

Just my 2 cents worth, WD-40 is NOT a penetrating lubricant and is virtually useless in an application like this. Fine for squirting into door locks to keep them lubed and to get out moisture (the WD stands for water displacement). If you need a penetrating lubricant follow Julie's suggestion of 50/50 mix of ATF & acetone or use PB Blaster or Kroil.