Running really rough, Blue smoke
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 373
Likes: 2
From: Alberta, Canada
Running really rough, Blue smoke
I just bought a 03 f-350 6L Auto, 260,000kms. I bought the truck with some engine woes and just want to ask if i'm going in the right direction for my trucks symptoms.
The truck starts first turn of the key but is running really rough and is constantly blowing "blue" smoke out the tail pipe. The engine is the same cold as it is at regular operating temp. The engine runs rough and seems to smoothen out if the rpms are over 2k and really into the pedal. I can hear the turbo working but unsure if its working properly.
I had to add 4L of coolant at the gas station near the house I picked it up from.... but never checked it when I bought the truck.(silly me) I've checked the oil and see no foaming or residue of antifreeze that I can see.
Previous owner stated that his "local" mechanic looked at it and told him there was no or very little compression in #6 cylinder..... still not sure I trust some local guy.
I was going to do the usual tests and cleanings, ie, clean EGR, check boost tubes couplers, start checking various electrical connections.
What else would you recommend I look at?
How can I find out if I would need head gaskets or if I need to re-ring the motor?
Any help really appreciated!!
Thx!
The truck starts first turn of the key but is running really rough and is constantly blowing "blue" smoke out the tail pipe. The engine is the same cold as it is at regular operating temp. The engine runs rough and seems to smoothen out if the rpms are over 2k and really into the pedal. I can hear the turbo working but unsure if its working properly.
I had to add 4L of coolant at the gas station near the house I picked it up from.... but never checked it when I bought the truck.(silly me) I've checked the oil and see no foaming or residue of antifreeze that I can see.
Previous owner stated that his "local" mechanic looked at it and told him there was no or very little compression in #6 cylinder..... still not sure I trust some local guy.
I was going to do the usual tests and cleanings, ie, clean EGR, check boost tubes couplers, start checking various electrical connections.
What else would you recommend I look at?
How can I find out if I would need head gaskets or if I need to re-ring the motor?
Any help really appreciated!!
Thx!
Fleet Owner
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 27,900
Likes: 3,617
with that much coolant gone and no sign of puking under the hood, it sounds like the egr cooler is leaking (probably caused by a plugged up oil cooler). I wouldn't drive it until you determined for sure what the problem is. If you do have an EGR cooler leak, it could hydrolock and do all kinds of damage. White smoke out the exhaust usually suggests a leaking EGR cooler.
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 373
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From: Alberta, Canada
Thanks for the reply!
I've ordered a new oil cooler today, just going to change it while i'm in there.
Whats the best way to figure out if the EGR cooler is leaking? Start pullin parts?
Pretty sure i'm going to go with a EGR delete kit. Any recommendations?
I've ordered a new oil cooler today, just going to change it while i'm in there.
Whats the best way to figure out if the EGR cooler is leaking? Start pullin parts?
Pretty sure i'm going to go with a EGR delete kit. Any recommendations?
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 373
Likes: 2
From: Alberta, Canada
Got the valve out. Noticed this valve does appear old, as if it was the original on the truck. The metal casing is not shinny as i've seen others. The build up was not damp at all just sooted up and quite dry. Inside the intake has a bunch of soot but dry as a bone.
Anyways I cleaned it up real good with carb cleaner, checked the o rings and they looked fine. Checked the plunger for movement etc...
Blew it off well and reinstalled it.
The truck is running the same. Still seems to be surging with blue smoke and can even see it in the exhaust when I watch it run.
I noticed I have some small amount of puffing coming from the oil dip stick tube unsure if this is a real problem.
Also can hear what sounds like a exhaust leak from the passenger side of the engine and a little smoky there from the leak.
I revved the truck up and is still puffing blue smoke but I cannot hear the turbo much, I thought even with no load I would still hear the turbo spooling through the exhaust??
Anyways I cleaned it up real good with carb cleaner, checked the o rings and they looked fine. Checked the plunger for movement etc...
Blew it off well and reinstalled it.
The truck is running the same. Still seems to be surging with blue smoke and can even see it in the exhaust when I watch it run.
I noticed I have some small amount of puffing coming from the oil dip stick tube unsure if this is a real problem.
Also can hear what sounds like a exhaust leak from the passenger side of the engine and a little smoky there from the leak.
I revved the truck up and is still puffing blue smoke but I cannot hear the turbo much, I thought even with no load I would still hear the turbo spooling through the exhaust??
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 15,368
Likes: 121
From: Stuttgart, Ar
Surging is the key word here. Check the tech folder for the ICP replacement instructions to find the sensor and unplug it. If your surging stops you have found your culprit, but you can't run without the sensor very far. If it turns out to be the sensor (an oily connector can indicate a problem also) then be sure to replace the wiring pigtail when you replace the sensor. Also, find and clean the EBP sensor which is on the front corner drivers side valve cover (close). The passenger side exhaust leak may be from the flex joint in the y-pipe. It's pretty common for them to crack at some point in their life.
There is a test for checking crankcase pressure for excess blowby that takes a "special" set of gauges. Sounds like your truck might have been rode hard and put up wet, but I'm going to be an optomist first. Head gaskets indicated by coolant puking around coolant reservoir cap. Rings take a compression test. Try the ICP stuff first and lets go from there.
There is a test for checking crankcase pressure for excess blowby that takes a "special" set of gauges. Sounds like your truck might have been rode hard and put up wet, but I'm going to be an optomist first. Head gaskets indicated by coolant puking around coolant reservoir cap. Rings take a compression test. Try the ICP stuff first and lets go from there.
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Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: Jan 2005
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From: Alberta, Canada
Thank you very much for the reply!
I will note that the previous owners only owned the truck for 10 months and in that time it ran like a top, until 2 weeks ago when this problem showed up and they stopped driving it.
P.S. Forgot to mention i've been using a Innova OBD2 CAN scanner and this truck still shows no codes!
I will note that the previous owners only owned the truck for 10 months and in that time it ran like a top, until 2 weeks ago when this problem showed up and they stopped driving it.
P.S. Forgot to mention i've been using a Innova OBD2 CAN scanner and this truck still shows no codes!
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Fleet Owner
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 27,900
Likes: 3,617
I used a fairly cheap pressure / vacuum gauge from autozone and ran some tubing from the dipstick tube into the cab so I could see the crankcase pressure at WOT. Spec is to be below 0.3 psig. It was kind of crude, but I think it is an adequate test.
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 15,368
Likes: 121
From: Stuttgart, Ar
Scuffy828 did mine before we did the heads last time. It's supposed to be below X psi at 2500 rpm's for X number of seconds or minutes. I didn't retune the truck so I had a LOT of trouble holding at the specified RPM for the required time because at 2500 the truck "turns on" so to speak. I know Cheezit will have the proper procedure. I'm thinking more than one problem on this truck (or someone nuked it and sold it) and didn't have a good enough tech to fix it. One way or another we'll get the problem solved.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 27,900
Likes: 3,617
The PCED manual states to get the engine to 70*C and measure the pressure at 3000 rpm w/ no load. If it is greater than 15 mm HG (which is apprx. 0.29 psig) then refer to the WSM for repair procedures. Also, the recommended procedure is somewhat elaborate as you mentioned (removing the turbo inlet pipe and elbow, blocking the outlet w/ a special cap, installing a protective screen on the inlet, and taking the measurement). I really think the crude test can give you an initial indication of an issue. At least my readings might give you a point of comparison.
A cold engine will give higher readings.
I did mine on a somewhat cold engine under load at 3000 rpm (driving) and was quite a bit under the 0.3 psig (apprx 0.1 psig max). I even pulled a slight vacuum under initial accelerations.
Edit - I guess I should qualify the info ...... it is from the 2006 manuals.
Edit again - if my simplified procedure really is too crude to tell anything, I wouldn't mind being told so ........
A cold engine will give higher readings.
I did mine on a somewhat cold engine under load at 3000 rpm (driving) and was quite a bit under the 0.3 psig (apprx 0.1 psig max). I even pulled a slight vacuum under initial accelerations.
Edit - I guess I should qualify the info ...... it is from the 2006 manuals.
Edit again - if my simplified procedure really is too crude to tell anything, I wouldn't mind being told so ........
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 373
Likes: 2
From: Alberta, Canada
Having trouble finding the right sensor. I've seen 2 sensors in front of the turbo, looking at the motor one is behind the oil filter, other one is to the left of the fuel filter.
I did find one that was on the right side of the motor, low down to the right of the upper rad hose. This sensor is black and on a small metal bracket with a metal hose coming out from underneath. Unsure what this sensor is so I unplugged it and tried the motor but it still did what it was doing before.
Truck was made 04/03, so I was sure it was under the turbo and I just cannot see anything under that unless I take the antifreeze tank and entire air filter off to see a little better.
What do ya think?
I did find one that was on the right side of the motor, low down to the right of the upper rad hose. This sensor is black and on a small metal bracket with a metal hose coming out from underneath. Unsure what this sensor is so I unplugged it and tried the motor but it still did what it was doing before.
Truck was made 04/03, so I was sure it was under the turbo and I just cannot see anything under that unless I take the antifreeze tank and entire air filter off to see a little better.
What do ya think?
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 373
Likes: 2
From: Alberta, Canada
Looking further into the ICP location it would seem I need to remove more stuff to see it kinda behind the turbo....... might be a cause of my oil leak on the pavement i've been seeing the last 2 days.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 27,900
Likes: 3,617
There are good threads in the Tech Folder about how to get to it .....
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 15,368
Likes: 121
From: Stuttgart, Ar
Definitely check the tech folder for location. William has an excellent write up on it there. They (ICP AND IPR) are between the turbo and the firewall on the drivers side kind of under the turbo. Remove the airfilter assy and take the two mount screws out of the degas bottle and just roll the degas bottle forward into the empty spot where the airfilter was. You'll probably have to remove the FICM also as IIRC it's in the way also.