towing with a straight shift
Thread Starter
|
Freshman User
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
From: Georgia
towing with a straight shift
I have a 1998 f-150 with the 4.6 and a 5 speed straight shift. According to the manual, the towing rating for a straight shift is only about a third of the rating for an automatic. Does anyone know the reason for this difference? Is the straight that flimsy or do they just figure that the auto will know what gear it needs to be in and someone with a straight will not? This really has me puzzled...
CO River Rat
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,209
Likes: 0
From: Lake Havasu City AZ
Most of the diff has to do with the torque converter. Plus, I've seen some folks smoke their clutches trying to pull boat/trailer rigs up a ramp; because they've driven stick shifts "all of their lives" they just know they can pull loads equal to the auto tranny rating.
Steve
Steve
Thread Starter
|
Freshman User
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
From: Georgia
Wrong?
As we all know there is a big difference between "wrong" and either fudging or deliberately changing the numbers for some reason.
Trending Topics
Cargo Master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,752
Likes: 5
From: Stillwater, OK
So.......the folks who build 'em are completely wrong about tow ratings?
look at it this way... a manual shift transmission has a lower sticker price than an automatic shift... if you put a higher tow/cargo rating on it you sell more of a cheaper item... if you de-rate the cheaper item, and make the more expensive item seem to be capable of more, you make the customer think that the capability has a direct relationship with the cost.
Now be honest, how many times have you found the best solution to be the simplest? Would you agree that simpler = less expensive? Wouldn't that mean that capability and price has an inverse relationship?
unfortunately, the consumer base is pretty oblivious to mechanics...they just look at numbers... numbers that aren't all there, and are fudged to sway opinion. Even taking their word for the tow ratings, take a look at the maintenece time/cost... notice that it isn't published by the "bulider"?
at the very least, remember that the GCVWR as Ford advertises them has no legal, or actual meaning... tounge weight (GVWR - curb weight) is the only limiting factor when towing.
FTE Stories
Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts
Rezvani's Latest Post-Apocalytic Monster Is a Ford F-150 Raptor Underneath
Verdad Gallardo
Top 10 Most Expensive Ford Trucks Ever Sold on Bring a Trailer
Joe Kucinski
2027 Ford Super Duty Buyer's Guide (Every Model, Engine, & Package)
Brett Foote
Top 10 Ford Truck Tragedies
Joe Kucinski
AEV FXL Super Duty - the Super Duty Raptor Ford Doesn't Make
Brett Foote
Lobo Vs Lobo: Proof the F-150 Lobo Should Be Even Lower!
Michael S. Palmer
Ford's 2001 Explorer Sportsman Concept Looks For a New Home
Verdad Gallardo
10 Best Ford Truck Engines We Miss the Most!
Joe Kucinski
2026 Shelby F-150 Off-Road: Better Than a Raptor R?
Brett Foote
CO River Rat
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,209
Likes: 0
From: Lake Havasu City AZ
Rebel -
"the folks who build 'em don't make the ratings... they just have guidelines. the folks who sell them do"
So.......it's the DEALER (seller) who sets the tow ratings; glad you cleared that up!
Also, using your logic about pricing: a Ranger is just as capable at towing as an F-150, but Ford prices the F-150 higher so you'll THINK it's more capable.
Wordmaster -
You had your answer (torque converter) in reply #2; if you want to tow loads larger than what your Owner's Guide lists for a stick shift, have at it.
Steve
"the folks who build 'em don't make the ratings... they just have guidelines. the folks who sell them do"
So.......it's the DEALER (seller) who sets the tow ratings; glad you cleared that up!
Also, using your logic about pricing: a Ranger is just as capable at towing as an F-150, but Ford prices the F-150 higher so you'll THINK it's more capable.
Wordmaster -
You had your answer (torque converter) in reply #2; if you want to tow loads larger than what your Owner's Guide lists for a stick shift, have at it.
Steve
Thread Starter
|
Freshman User
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
From: Georgia
Thank you. Can you tell me what a torque converter does that makes the towing capacity three times as high? Does it change the amount of torque available at the back wheels or what?
Cargo Master
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,752
Likes: 5
From: Stillwater, OK
a Ranger is no simpler than an F-150, just smaller.
Yes, generally when towing, LARGER = more capable, as your towing vehicle to towed vehicle weight ratio decreases (a heavier tow vehicle won't get thrown around by a trailer as easily). Not to mention, there ARE legally binding numbers on the vehicle that marketing doesn't get to mess around with... GVWR, and GAWR are two of them... The price difference between equally equipt Rangers, F150, and super duty's do not reflect a difference in simplicity so much as they do a difference in the amount of material used... more steel = more $
FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 65,938
Likes: 1,432
From: Millersville, MD
The tow rating is more how much weight the truck can SAFELY carry and how well it can STOP the load more so than what the engine/transmission can PULL!
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 10,060
Likes: 491
From: Bristol, TN.
I don't want to join what looks like an argument, but would like to say I believe ratings reflect a multitude of factors which have to do with safety, liability, capability, marketing, and some I suspect with warranty costs. Clearly there is a fudge factor built into most ratings for the sake of all of these factors. At least, that is my opinion.
Steve
Steve
Thread Starter
|
Freshman User
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
From: Georgia
I have been told it is a marketing thing, which, is totally beleivable. I have also been told it is due to the torque converter and have asked just how the torque converter makes this kind of difference.
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 18,488
Likes: 22
From: The Big, Oregon
Basically, the torque converter allows the transmission to act like it has a much lower first gear by allowing some slip and letting the engine get into it's torque curve.
The whole thing is really a marketing and warranty issue. The manual trucks typically came with a 3.5 rear ratio, or higher and as a result if they had a high tow rating then Ford would be replacing clutches under warranty. The manuals tended to be the fuel economy trucks, plus the transmissions were a bit on the weak side. They just couldn't hold up to a full size truck towing a real trailer with a V8.
The whole thing is really a marketing and warranty issue. The manual trucks typically came with a 3.5 rear ratio, or higher and as a result if they had a high tow rating then Ford would be replacing clutches under warranty. The manuals tended to be the fuel economy trucks, plus the transmissions were a bit on the weak side. They just couldn't hold up to a full size truck towing a real trailer with a V8.