That's Depressing
Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2005
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From: The Great State of Texas
I concur... However I want to say I remember my cousin flying somewhere to get the initial training that was offered but I don't remember the quality of the training. He made it sound like it was upon the dealers/techs to pursue the training and Ford wasn't requiring it. The dealer he works for their sales for diesels make up ~ 70 - 80% of their sales so they had to make sure they could support their customers. I also remember him telling me to stay away from the 03's until the first year bug's got worked out since he was in constant contact with Ford with the repairs and updates.
Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,964
Likes: 2,662
From: The Great State of Texas
Oh no, you didn't just go there. Nothing worse in life then calling into question the design quality of a cummins(well maybe saying the 7.3 can't do something).
The cummins had it share of problems during it's year in the dodge truck, including the 6.7, and we can discuss them also. It's just that this engine made small incremental evolutionary changes that minimized the risk of any major problems developing in a high percentage of the engines they sold, and typically these engines served some other duty before making it into the truck world.
I actually put more blame on the owners, because when mention to people that they have to treat these engines differently then previous diesels(if they come from previous experience or even if they don't) and they look at me like why? Why should I have to do more then just turn the key and go? That wasn't in the manual, so I don't need to do it. When people exhibit that kind of mentality, that makes it hard not to go to owner related first and then work from there. That kind of logic just boggles my mind.
See Tex this is were I disagree with you wholeheartedly. A high percentage of these trucks were sold to companies, farmers and ranchers who focus more on their work/business than their trucks (Isn't this the market the SD was originally designed for). They don't use their trucks to pull the occasional boat to the lake, or pick up the groceries or even read internet forums like this one to how best handle issues and to install coolant filters. They need a truck that will perform reliably ever day all day like their predessors did. It's this market that ford was handed their **** in a basket when these customers switched brands because the truck (product) couldn't meet their demands so they were forced to jump ship and purchase the product that could deliver.
I hate to break it to everyone, but as all vehicles get more sophisticated(even gas cars), you'll have to handle all newer vehicles differently then what you are used to growing up. It's just the nature of "evolution". Some may require more effort then others, but it's not rocket science either.
Disagree again...Actually the current gas engine requires much less maintenance or special attention than the old engines years ago (ie change plugs every 25k miles, points/distributers every 25k miles, lucky to get 100k miles without a major overhaul, burned oil, carbs needing overhauls, etc). No... evolution of the todays gas engine has only improved the service it provides it's customers and low cost operation without very little special conditions
The cummins had it share of problems during it's year in the dodge truck, including the 6.7, and we can discuss them also. It's just that this engine made small incremental evolutionary changes that minimized the risk of any major problems developing in a high percentage of the engines they sold, and typically these engines served some other duty before making it into the truck world.
I actually put more blame on the owners, because when mention to people that they have to treat these engines differently then previous diesels(if they come from previous experience or even if they don't) and they look at me like why? Why should I have to do more then just turn the key and go? That wasn't in the manual, so I don't need to do it. When people exhibit that kind of mentality, that makes it hard not to go to owner related first and then work from there. That kind of logic just boggles my mind.
See Tex this is were I disagree with you wholeheartedly. A high percentage of these trucks were sold to companies, farmers and ranchers who focus more on their work/business than their trucks (Isn't this the market the SD was originally designed for). They don't use their trucks to pull the occasional boat to the lake, or pick up the groceries or even read internet forums like this one to how best handle issues and to install coolant filters. They need a truck that will perform reliably ever day all day like their predessors did. It's this market that ford was handed their **** in a basket when these customers switched brands because the truck (product) couldn't meet their demands so they were forced to jump ship and purchase the product that could deliver.
I hate to break it to everyone, but as all vehicles get more sophisticated(even gas cars), you'll have to handle all newer vehicles differently then what you are used to growing up. It's just the nature of "evolution". Some may require more effort then others, but it's not rocket science either.
Disagree again...Actually the current gas engine requires much less maintenance or special attention than the old engines years ago (ie change plugs every 25k miles, points/distributers every 25k miles, lucky to get 100k miles without a major overhaul, burned oil, carbs needing overhauls, etc). No... evolution of the todays gas engine has only improved the service it provides it's customers and low cost operation without very little special conditions
BTW... I looked at a Platinum the other day and just thought if it only had the diesel like originally planned, I probably would of had one in the driveway.
Junior User
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 56
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Yes there was some good 5.7 diesels, but the majority of them just didn't make it very long. I had a summer job years ago and drove a company truck with the 5.7 diesel that had well over 100k miles and it was a dog to drive and it knocked and rattled something fierce, but it kept running for many years.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,626
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From: Plano TX and Brentwood TN
Disagree again...Actually the current gas engine requires much less maintenance or special attention than the old engines years ago (ie change plugs every 25k miles, points/distributers every 25k miles, lucky to get 100k miles without a major overhaul, burned oil, carbs needing overhauls, etc). No... evolution of the todays gas engine has only improved the service it provides it's customers and low cost operation without very little special conditions
Now hybrid vehicles have to treated differently as well. I know, my mom had one. If total electric and/or hydrogen vehicles become commercially viable those will need to be treated different as well, some for obvious reasons, some for not so obvious ones. You have to treat vehicles that are designed to be flex fuel compatible(or biodiesel) differently then vehicles that aren't(and the sensors that go along with that).
More sophistication and technology can work both positive and negative ways of how to treat things differently.
Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,964
Likes: 2,662
From: The Great State of Texas
BTW - The 6.5 Turbo GM diesel was a turd, but like the 5.7 a few lived a long lifespan. Also this engine was designed by Detroit Diesel when GM owned that division, but there was no marketing linking it to that division.
Junior User
Joined: Apr 2008
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The 6.2 was a completely different engine. It was desinged from the ground up to be a diesel engine eventually became the 6.5 and it was a misconception that it was the same 5.7 (gasoline conversion) engine that haunted it for it's entire life span. It actually looked very similar but had 6 bolts/cylinder. It wasn't until the DMax that people finally realized that GM finally got rid of the "Gas Conversion diesle engine".
BTW - The 6.5 Turbo GM diesel was a turd, but like the 5.7 a few lived a long lifespan. Also this engine was designed by Detroit Diesel when GM owned that division, but there was no marketing linking it to that division.
BTW - The 6.5 Turbo GM diesel was a turd, but like the 5.7 a few lived a long lifespan. Also this engine was designed by Detroit Diesel when GM owned that division, but there was no marketing linking it to that division.
Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,964
Likes: 2,662
From: The Great State of Texas
The 6.5 Turbo was like a turd... You could polish it all day long, but at the end of the day you were still left holding a turd!
Junior User
Joined: Apr 2008
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The 6.5 Turbo diesel was GMs attempt to compete with the new 7.3 Power Stroke, but it couldn't hold a candle to the 7.3's power. It ate stanadyne injection pumps due to heat, which the stanadyne pump was very similar to the one used by Ford's IDI diesels.
The 6.5 Turbo was like a turd... You could polish it all day long, but at the end of the day you were still left holding a turd!
The 6.5 Turbo was like a turd... You could polish it all day long, but at the end of the day you were still left holding a turd!
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