Hey Jeff, Is the outer shell of the buildings that you are talking about an EIFS system? A synthetic stucco system such as Senergy or Dryvit?
I have seen a lot of shotty work when in comes to applicators of those type systems. Many manufacturers will not even allow the sale of it's system to a plaster/stucco contractor unless they are approved applicators.
If these systems are not applied & sealed correctly, they become quite a problem.
That's one thing that I can say about some of the trades. The apprenticeship schooling that is a mandatory part of the job.
Jake.

 

Here is my experience with a union.
I went to work for a company that has union labor. I went into this open minded and decided to plan my emplyment decisions based on information I gathered along the way.

After I had worked through my probation period and was considered worth keeping, I was offered the idea to join the union by union members. I told them I am considering it but I am not sure I want to join. This statement received me some undesireable reactions. You have to know that I work in a right to work state to see the problem I ran into. Anyway, this went on for six months.

I finally ended up working with a new crew. The foreman of this crew was very interested in the fact that I hadn't joined the union and wasn't nice about it. Something to the effect of my receiving the benefits of the union and not paying union dues and such. He also wanted to know if I am planning on a lifetime career in the trade? I was asked about once too many times about joining and something about if we don't have a contract this week will I cross a picket line. The last thing I heard the final day before the contract ran out was this: "It isn't going to be good for my health to stay in this occupation outside of the union" I told him to stop wasting his time and mine on intimidation and coercion.

Well, I am sorry, but who made them pay their union dues and what right do people who do have to threaten anyones health that don't? Did I misunderstand the Constitution of the United States? I really don't think a union has more power than the constitution does and having said that don't waste any space arguing why unions have this legal right. Go read the constitution first. Some state laws that support unions in my eyes are in error of what this country was founded on. Sure this country is a union. A union that we all control. Not a union that has the power of a monarchy of your employment which is the way company unions operate inside of company walls. When you join a union you give up many rights that nonunion workers have and you receive new rules that can cause you financial loss. The list is too long. You should't have to pay to work. How would you like having to pay a union in order to shop at stores near your home? The same thing you see wrong with that is what is wrong with paying to work. If the solution to the problems of employment today were unions then why aren't all companies unionized today? Why don't someone create a consumers union that controls how you spend your money for products and put a control on the prices? Simple, it isn't legal, not productive nor competitive. Oops, did you notice how a union isn't legal? I wonder why labor unions are supported by law?

To make a long story short all of the lead people on jobsites refused to work with me based solely on the fact that I was not a member of the union. So I couldn't work and the company swept me under the rug and right out the door. End of problem for the company.... and me really.

There is nothing wrong with someone rejoicing in the good things they have received from being in a union.

On the other hand there isn't anything wrong with someone taking off the blinders of people and showing them some reality of the undesireable scenarios.

 

Best job I ever had was constructing playgrounds (age 18-19). The employer I worked for wasn't union, but he had to pay the workers union wages for putting playgrounds in the public schools and parks which were most of the jobs. $33.69 isn't bad at all. 40 hours a week, no overtime and at least $1,000 a week after taxes. I wish I still had that job! (had to go to college)

 

That's never been my intention. I was just engaging in a debate to try and put forward as many points and examples as I could to try and illustrate my thoughts on unions, as I thought you were. I do find it interesting though that you havent' come up with any similar points, no pro union anecdotes or strong positive points that unions offer.

Quote:

with that said...........You are whats wrong with this companies these days.........

Without sounding argumentative, could you explain this to me? (Dish it out, I can take it ) How is wanting my company to operate smoothly and at a profit wrong? How is expecting the most from my workers wrong?

Quote:

why pay a varitey of skilled craftsmen do a job..when you could pay one guy to halfa$$ it...........

In my last post, which I sometimes wonder if you read, I stated rather clearly that the workers would be trained and competent. It surprises how willing you are to sell yourself short. You don't think that with training you could do more than one trade at a time, especially in situations where the work is straight forward? What if it meant an increase in pay?

Why does that one guy have to be halfa$$ed? Why can't he be a highly skilled person who does an excellent job? I can operate just about anything with an engine, I can frame, I can finish concrete, I can do most carpentry, I'm mechanically inclined, and I do it all very well if I do say so myself.

Quote:

thats why around here kids just out of school are real happy to get a job paying 7 bucks an hour...........that you can't live on,I might add.........

This is sad and true. My girlfriends nephews are all trying to find jobs right now and it's tough. In this day and age, jobs that will allow you to live and raise a family require training or education, the days of finishing high school, getting a job and working at that job for the rest of your life are over. Especially without a bare minimum of a high school diploma.

There aren't enough people going into the trades these days, and there is a market for skilled tradesmen, be they union or not. There isn't a market for unskilled labour, due to a number of reasons that would require a whole new thread. Is this situation a function of union vs. non-union, maybe, but I don't think it's the root cause.

Quote:

Now I know you will have something to say.......and I know you won't see it my way..........I'm just glad others do.......

Some do, some don't, that's just the nature of this discussion.

Waxy

 

Not sure on the system , but ya the problem buildings are all stucco . There are 2 about a 1/2 mile from me that cant be more than a few years old and both buildings are enclosed in big tents right now , the finish is all stripped off and I guess they are putting something else on . From what I can see , any wood that was under the stucco is rotten . It really looks bad man . This whole deal here about the Condo`s completely crashed the market for them . When we bought this house we are in now I remember the bank lady , the first thing she said to us " This mortgage isnt for a Condo , is it ? "
My friend at work , his sister in law bought a Condo here that leaked 2 years later and there was so much damage she ended up walking away from it , it was stucco exterior and a corner unit , really nice inside , 6 aplliances etc.... He said she paid like
$ 179,000.00 and she tried to sell it for HALF that but no one would buy . A lot of these contractors came from Alberta and packed up when the units were done and they were gone . A lot of trusting people lost a ton of money . It is really a shame some contractors can have absolutely NO morals at all .

Jeff

 

waxy said
-----------------------------------------------------------
I do find it interesting though that you havent' come up with any similar points, no pro union anecdotes or strong positive points that unions offer.
----------------------------------------------------------
I said
-------
Ok A good friend of mine and yes he was non-union......
He was on a non-union job and he and another guy was putting a bucket on an endloader.........well my friend (CLIFF )was standing on the front tire ( you have to to reach the pins )
The other guy got in the loader to raise the boom.....so cliff could line the pin up........

well the guy hit the gear selector in forward......cliff fell forward and was ran over..............

then he threw it in reverse and backed over him.........painiced
.....back in foward and stoped setting on his chest..........

He's son-in-law (paul) was working there to and ran over to him ........picked his head up in his arms just in time to see cliffs eyes close...........He was a damn fine man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Turns out the operator was smoking pot.......no drug testing on that non-union job..........

EVERY job I go out on, I and every one else drug test first thing
along with random test............

waxy said
--------------------------------------------------------------
How is wanting my company to operate smoothly and at a profit wrong? How is expecting the most from my workers wrong?
---------------------------------------------------------------
I said

nothing is wrong with wanting your company to operate smoothly and at a profit,or wanting the most of your workers..........I never said that........I said when you have one person doing more than one job they can't be as skilled as a person that does the same job everyday.........

now I didn't say they couldn't do it ,maybe even well............but a man who does it day in and day out is going to be more knowledgable,faster and should do a better job.......

waxy said
--------------------------------------------------------------------
This is sad and true. My girlfriends nephews are all trying to find jobs right now and it's tough. In this day and age, jobs that will allow you to live and raise a family require training or education, the days of finishing high school, getting a job and working at that job for the rest of your life are over. Especially without a bare minimum of a high school diploma.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
I said
I hate to hear that about your nephews............Its like that everywhere.....yes sad but true......

waxy said
----------------------------------------------------------------------
There aren't enough people going into the trades these days, and there is a market for skilled tradesmen, be they union or not. There isn't a market for unskilled labour, due to a number of reasons that would require a whole new thread. Is this situation a function of union vs. non-union, maybe, but I don't think it's the root cause.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
I said
No its not the root cause .........but I don't think it helps.......

 

Jeff, I would put good money on the fact that those building were synthetic stucco systems. EIFS systems. There have been major lawsuits throughout the U.S. & Canada on these systems. Water gets behind the white styrofoam of the system and rots the sheathing. Plus, because of the dampness there becomes a big problem with mold & mildew which in turn can create a health issue.
Applicator error was one of the major causes of this just because the personell doing it didn't seal it properly. A lot of the manufactures faced swinging lawsuits and footed heavy bills because of this outcome. The east coast of the States had a lot of new buildings, even houses, have the same situation. Sorry to hear about your friend's sister-in-law and the condo she had. Jake.

 

There was a mention of drug testing. I agree with that & that all should be drug tested reguardless of union or non-union.

Union trades do seem to to keep up or make mandatory drug testing over the non-union trades. Trucking company's do randum drug tests reguardless of the type of shop.
The only problems that I have seen is that when a union driver get's tested, there seems to be a lot of flack about that issue. They don't like it, gripe about it and then get it posponed or delayed. Why? In NJ it is state law that each driver be tested once a year. This shouldn't be a problem. Company's & their insurance carrier normally cover the cost plus the driver is on the clock when taking the test. Strange.
Jake.

 

Just to clear things up ......I'm a union operator.......I do not work for one company...........but many different companies
I work out of the( HALL )Which means that My B.A. ( business agent ) gets a call from a company thats going to do a job.............. they order x-number of operators to run what ever machines ........
My B.A. then goes down the (LIST) and calls the next person on the list that is qualified for the job..................

I can't really argue to what happens in any other type of union-job, just the construction aspect.........

So in my replies this Is the type of union-job I'm refering to.........

 

Hey all....I'm not gonna get into the argument....but back to the original topic.....International Association of Fire Fighters Local 2665

 

72 Mach_1,

That's really a tragic story. I feel genuinely sorry for your loss, and that you had to experience something like that. I don't really know how to put it into words, so I guess I'll leave it at that.

Drug testing should be mandatory on all work sites, union or non. To my mind the fact that it isn't is inexcusable. I know I've come across it myself, even guys coming into work completely hung over. My boss sent them home, no pay, PERIOD. No questions asked.

I think we've come a long way in this thread (basically just the two of us ). We still don't agree on many things, but I know that I've gained a lot of insight and respect for your point of view and beliefs. I also have a lot of respect for a good operator, they're like artists really. A good operator is worth every penny on a job site.

Hopefully somewhere doen the road we can find a topic we agree on and get to know each other a little better.

Waxy

 

Hey WAXY

I have to admit,you did have me mad there for awhile......

but I'm better now.....

I too feel Drug testing should be mandatory on all work sites, union or non

A good operator is worth every penny on a job site......they're like artists .........I too agree

I think we've come a long way in this thread (basically just the two of us )...........yes once more I agree

Hopefully somewhere down the road we can find a topic we agree on and get to know each other a little better.

Well we do both like FORDS............so I guess I can live with that..................

 

Member Of International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers Local 5 Pittsburgh PA. Been working 13 years and never laid off. Of course there are some people who want to work enough to get by and collect unemployment as long as possible. These " hall *****s" give unions a bad reputation.
Overall, it was the unions who got the 5 day week, 40 hr week, paid holidays, benefits....... for all of you union bashing *******s.
The training and education you will recieve from a union apprenticeship cannot be matched by any trade school and the out of pocket expense for you will be nothing, not to mention that you will be employed as you go to school.


Respectfully,
Tom Kalinowski
Journeyman Inside Wireman/Foreman
I.B.E.W. L.U. #5

 

Tim,
Go for it! I've been a member of U.A. Local 469 for 31 years. There are good times and bad, mostly good. Learn everything that you can during your apprenticeship, practice it and become proficient. You will have a life experience and a trade that will last you a lifetime. All unions are brotherships, so take care of all your new brothers(sisters) and they will take care of you. Teach someone new all that you have learned. Once you're a journeyman, being able to travel to any part of the U.S. or Canada to an area that might have more work is a definite plus.
Good luck.

 

[Trucking company's do randum drug tests reguardless of the type of shop.
The only problems that I have seen is that when a union driver get's tested, there seems to be a lot of flack about that issue. They don't like it, gripe about it and then get it posponed or delayed. Why? In NJ it is state law that each driver be tested once a year. This shouldn't be a problem. Company's & their insurance carrier normally cover the cost plus the driver is on the clock when taking the test. Strange.
Jake. [/B][/QUOTE]

Hi Jake,
I am a proud seventeen year union teamster driver for the largest LTL carrier in the US. I can promise you that I do not complain when I have to go to the clinic to be drug/alcohol tested. They pay us well to be drug/alcohol free professional drivers and they pay us well to be tested.



International Brotherhood of Teamsters
Local 745 Dallas, Texas