I decided to treat my engine oil with Marvel Mystery oil today. The following events might just be a coincidence or directly related to the oil treatment. After adding the Marvel Mystery oil I took the V10 for a spin (about 5 miles) as I returned to the driveway the stock gauge went to zero and the oil pressure light came on. I simple pulled in the driveway and shutdown the truck. I immediately thought the Marvel Mystery oil caused some crap to break loose…so I changed the oil filter, no change still no pressure according to the stock gauge. So decided to change the oil…no change still no pressure according to the stock gauge. Then decided to change the oil sending unit…no change still no pressure. I pulled the oil filler cap to view inside of the valve cover for oil, yes looks wet. Again, started the engine and no pressure for a moment…then all of the sudden the pressure came up and everything looked normal. Idle the truck for a while, stopped and started a few times with pressure every time. So, decided to go for another spin…after a few miles the stock pressure gauge started jumping around so I headed for <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1:PersonName>home</st1:PersonName>. Before arriving <st1:PersonName>home</st1:PersonName> the gauge laid on zero with the light on. That’s when I decided it was time for a real mechanical pressure gauge. After installation, the pressure came up to 50 psi, I warmed up the truck for about 10 minutes feeling good I had pressure. However, with the engine at normal operating temp and the engine at idle I have about 30 psi, when you accelerate the engine to about 2k rpm it comes up to 50 psi then drop down to about 40 psi. If you accelerate to 3k – 4k rpm the oil psi continues to drop down to 30…is this normal oil pressure behavior? If not, do you think the Marvel Mystery oil broke some crap loose? If yes, what can I do to resolve the problem. Sorry for the long post, I felt all the information was needed to explain the circumstances.

 

It almost sounds like you got some crud stuck in the bypass valve in the oil pump.

I will say that I have an oil gauge in my '01, first it was a mechanical, then electric, that does not do anything even close to what you are seeing, so it's not "normal" in any way.

I rev the engine, it goes up, it goes up as high as 70-80 PSI, depending on how cold the oil is, how cold the engine is, and how high I rev it.

I get 25 PSI at hot idle in drive.

Revving the engine, the pressure shouldn't drop. It MIGHT get to a certain point, and stop going up, but it shouldn't DROP.

Are you sure you have enough oil in the pan?

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This story, and many like it, are all the reason I need to never EVER using any "treatment" in my engines. Be it MMO, Seafoam, Lucas, whatever. Just use a good brand-name detergent oil for the life of the engine.

 

Where is the oil pressure relief located? I here you on the oil treatment, I purchased the V10 used about a year ago. I know the PCV was bad at one time and replaced. It was the only new part on the truck. Wonder if I should consider another oil flush to see if the relief valve will seat?

 

That valve is in the oil pump - which is in the timing cover - which means you have to take the timing cover off to get to it.

You MIGHT want to try another flush and see what happens, but ... I dunno

 

My thoughts went exactly along the same path as Krewat...

If it were mine:
I would flush the system with Seafoam. This is a methanol based cleaner that has proven pretty good at breaking down serious crud. Dump it in, run for a short time, then let sit overnight.

Thankfully, you now have fresh oil in there. That will protect the bearings for at least a few seconds with no oil pressure (assuming engine is not under heavy loads). If you are seeing at least 20 psi, the engine can be run indefinitely. If under 20 and/or the light is on, try to shut her down within 15 seconds.

 

Sure wish I had installed a mechanical oil pressure gauge before I started this mess. I'm having a difficult time deciding if I actually have a problem. Started the V10 this afternoon...getting about 70-75 psi when cold. After the engine is at normal operating temp. maybe 15 minutes I'm getting 25-30 psi at Idle. Increase RPM...the psi increases to about 50 psi then drops back to 40 and holds there. Is this normal oil pressure when at normal operating temp? Do I have a problem? I'm planning a 5 minute engine oil flush and another oil/filter change to see if the pressure improves. Heck, maybe this was the normal oil pressure all along? Note to ALL, install some gauges that actually give you some information. I'll give you an update after the flush tomorrow.

 

I don't have the factory specs, but the numbers sound reasonable.

But it sounds like the idiot light is not coming on anymore? If so, maybe Krewat's theory was correct and the crud has moved on.

 

Update…completed the 5 minute flush using Gunk MF3 High Mileage Motor Flush, I guess you would call this the second flush. If you read the opening biography I started with Marvel Mystery Oil before a planned oil change. Anyway, followed the manufacturers directions and drained the pan and change the filter. Filled with GTX 5w20 and installed motorcraft filter. Also, install a tee so I could hook up the stock oil pressure switch along with my mechanical oil pressure gauge. Started the truck and immediately reading 75-80 psi. cold. After 15 minute warm-up reading about 50-55 psi at 2.5k rpm and 25-30 at idle. These pressures seemed normal so I decided to go for a spin. Running the V10 under normal driving conditions the pressure would rise and fall with the rpm as predicted. Then I decided to drop into second gear and hold the rpm at 4k for a sustained period of time…simulating towing conditions. After about 3-4 minutes the oil pressure began to slowly drop lower and lower…40…30…20 before I decided to pull over and check if I had an oil leak. I shut off the engine and crawled around but found nothing. Got back in the truck and started…50 psi of oil pressure, back to normal. I repeated the 4k rpm test and duplicated the oil pressure drop and again the oil pressure returned to 50 psi after letting the truck set for 5 minutes. I’m think the oil return passages might be partially clogged not allowing the oil to return to the pan fast enough under load. I’m going to pull off the driver side valve cover tomorrow and check out the situation. What do you guys think? Any tricks pulling off the valve covers? What about cleaning the oil passage returns? The passenger side looks a little tight. I really want to resolve this oil issue so I can share my new steering box (Red) installation.

 

Update #2 Removed driver side valve cover to discover this mess...other then the obvious of engine replacement, does anyone have any ideas on how to proceed. Any and all ideas including what would cause such a problem. Just so you don't spend too much time telling me I should have change the oil more often, I purchased the truck used about 9 months ago. I can't believe the engine could look so bad...it runs like it's new.

 

Serious question:

What have you got to lose if you tried some aggressive clean out and it caused a catastrophic failure? It's very unlikely to happen, but is possible if a big chunk plugs something up.

It sounds like your confidence with it is not so great right now, so maybe not much to lose?

If it were me, I would try:
1) Drain off 1/2 quart of oil.
2) Add full can of Seafoam
3) Run 'til at operating temp. No need to rev or anything, just want to get the oil and Seafoam (and sludge!) nicely warmed up so it can work better.
4) Let sit overnight to soak.
5) Repeat steps 3 and 4 a couple times.
6) Re-inspect under valve cover (hooray for re-usable gaskets!)
7) If it looks notably cleaner, change oil and filter. May I suggest Napa full synthtic 5W20? It is rebadged Valvoline full synthetic. You get the benefits of the super powerful detergent package of a premium oil at a more reasonable cost.
8) Try the driving tests again. If the oil pressure continues to drop to 20 at operating rpm, try the high dose Seafoam treatment again. Maybe even two cans worth... This stuff does work very well. And when mixed with premium oil, the risk of hurting the engine is very, very low.
Old timers used to have great success using ATF to clean out sludged engines, but I wouldn't try with modern ATF's unless you're sure they have enough zinc and phospates to protect the bearings if you have momentary pressure loss.

Once the oil pressure stabilizes, then just change oil (and filter) frequently until it stays clean. Don't be surprised to find the oil turning black within a couple hundred miles using the premium oils like Napa full synthetic - the high end detergent package will continue to clean sludge far more aggressively than average oils.

The metal parts will likely retain the dark chocolate to black coloring, but you should see the undesirable chunkiness disappearing.

This is highly unlikely to induce additional damage. It is also unlikely to undo any damage already done. But if it works and oil pressure returns to normal, you just saved major bucks!
Yes, I've done this with a couple engines in the past. I'm delighted to say both went on to live very long lives!

 

I'll clean the valve cover up before I installation. If I can get the oil pressure to stabilize I'll just run her until she bucks. I'm <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1:PersonName>work</st1:PersonName>ing on a method to scope the oil pump screen though the oil pan drain plug. I also have some ideas to flush the pan through the drain plug. Maybe the reason it's losing oil pressure when I hold the rpm at 4k is the oil pump screen is partially blocked an unable to provide the flow at high demand. I can't believe how good this truck runs with all this crap in the engine. I've had the family to <st1:State><st1lace>New Mexico</st1lace></st1:State> several times, pulled the travel trailer on camping trips without any problem. If I can get the oil pressure back I can tell stories everytime we make a trip somewhere.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
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Any idea how an engine gets like this? Also, any idea how much oil I should observe when starting the engine without the valve cover? The timing chain slings oil everywhere but the cam gets only a small amount of oil...less then I expected. Maybe an overhead cam doesn't require as much lubrication?<o></o>
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Thanks for following this nightmare. I'll pick up more oil/filters and sea-foam.<o></o>

 

The oil pump pickup idea is a good one. That could very well be the problem.

As to why the engine got like that, well... I have one answer: The oil was never changed.

Or if it was, it was horrible recycled crap without any detergent additives, or who knows, even crappy diesel oil was used.

 

Update #3

Before bolting the valve cover back on I wanted to verify I had good oil flow to the valve train. This is difficult because the timing chain slings a lot of oil. So, I took an empty 1 quart oil can/bottle and cut the side and long edge off then slipped it over the timing chain to contain the oil. This provided good protection so I could inspect the oil flow to the valve train. I started up the V10 and immediately had good flow all across the cam and bearings, good to go. With the valve cover cleaned of sludge I bolted her back together and added 1 can of Sea Foam. Started up the engine and idled for approximately 20 minutes. Toward the end of the run I added a few small accelerations. The oil pressure would climb for a moment then slowly fall. I shut her down and let cool for a few hours then repeated the process. I did this a third time just before dark. On the third cool down/warm up cycle I noticed an improvement. Before shutting off the engine I gave a few small acceleration to check the oil pressure. This time the pressure would rise to about 50-55 and hold. The idle pressure is running about 30 psi. Its way too early to call this problem resolved but it’s definitely improved from previous observations. I plan to perform the same cycle technique tomorrow before draining and filling with fresh oil/filter. I’ll keep you updated on the results.

 

I see the guys on Bobs the oil guy talk a lot about this stuff.

Auto-Rx Internal Engine Cleaner Sludge Remover, Transmission Motorcycle Diesel. Reduces Emissions

 

Update #4
<O</O
<FONT face="Times New Roman">No happy ending to this fairytale. I’ll try and keep it short but what to cap off the experiment for future V10 fans. Continued the warm-up/cool-down cycle the following day, the motor still has 1 can of Sea Foam in the crank case. My spirits were high because I observed the motor would hold 50-55 psi of oil pressure when warm and rpm about 2k. Decided it was time to dump the Sea Foam and re-fill with fresh oil/filter and see if the V10 would hold oil pressure. Short answer, No! The motor just couldn’t hold oil pressure when I put it under stress at 2-3k rpms. I tried another Sea Foam treatment and followed the warm-up/cool-down process as before, but same results. At this point I didn’t have much to loose and decided to try 20w-50. If the oil pump is worn I thought just maybe the 20w-50 would hold pressure better then the 5w-20. Nope, it didn’t <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com<O</O
Options:
<O</O
#1
Replace the oil pump on this engine. This is a big job (pull the motor) and I still don’t know if it will cure the problem.
<O</O
#2
Purchase a used motor. But that could leave me right back to the same place I’m at now.
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#3
Purchase Re-man motor. But the most expensive option<O</O

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What do you guys think?
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Thanks for following!