Pistons
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From: LaGrande,Ore
Pistons
I could'nt figure out how to move my post to this forum, so i'll type a new one. I would like to know more about the cast iron inserts in pistons for the FT engines (361/391). I don't find them in all HD/INDUSTRIAL apps. Silvolite site is my source for now. I've heard it's for wear, or to stop the top ring from pounding out. Can someone enlighten me, please? OBCB
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From: Chesapeake, Va.
I could'nt figure out how to move my post to this forum, so i'll type a new one. I would like to know more about the cast iron inserts in pistons for the FT engines (361/391). I don't find them in all HD/INDUSTRIAL apps. Silvolite site is my source for now. I've heard it's for wear, or to stop the top ring from pounding out. Can someone enlighten me, please? OBCB
If you are talking about the pistons themselves that would be the standard cast aluminum pistons that have a piece of steel cast into them to control the rate of expansion and improve it's strength.
I don't know of any "cast iron" pistons being made or used in any modern engines.
If this is not the info you want you will have to clarify your question some more.
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From: LaGrande,Ore
pistons
Thanks for the reply. I'm sorry for not being more clear. With some HD/industrial engines the pistons are cast with a cast iron insert that is the top piston ring land for the ring to fit in. I've been told it was to keep the top ring from pounding out the ring land. You can see pictures of the pistons at the KB/ Silv-o-lite web site. My question/s were for more information on this. Why on some and not on others , is it realy a benefit for a specific application, etc. I have a very specific engine build in mind and wanted some more information. Thanks OBCB
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Union, Washington
Thanks for the reply. I'm sorry for not being more clear. With some HD/industrial engines the pistons are cast with a cast iron insert that is the top piston ring land for the ring to fit in. I've been told it was to keep the top ring from pounding out the ring land. You can see pictures of the pistons at the KB/ Silv-o-lite web site. My question/s were for more information on this. Why on some and not on others , is it realy a benefit for a specific application, etc. I have a very specific engine build in mind and wanted some more information. Thanks OBCB
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From: iowa
With some HD/industrial engines the pistons are cast with a cast iron insert that is the top piston ring land for the ring to fit in. I've been told it was to keep the top ring from pounding out the ring land. You can see pictures of the pistons at the KB/ Silv-o-lite web site. My question/s were for more information on this. . Thanks OBCB
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Joined: Jan 2009
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From: Chesapeake, Va.
Thanks for the reply. I'm sorry for not being more clear. With some HD/industrial engines the pistons are cast with a cast iron insert that is the top piston ring land for the ring to fit in. I've been told it was to keep the top ring from pounding out the ring land. You can see pictures of the pistons at the KB/ Silv-o-lite web site. My question/s were for more information on this. Why on some and not on others , is it realy a benefit for a specific application, etc. I have a very specific engine build in mind and wanted some more information. Thanks OBCB
I have never run into pistons like the ones you describe, but then again theres a lot of things I have never run into. If you want to research more in depth you might try TRW for some historical info, also Hastings (I think) made pistons for Ford back in the day. I am quite certain that I saw some cast iron pistons that came from a WW II engine, I think it was a ****** or Ford built Jeep engine. Man, that was a very long time ago.
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From: LaGrande,Ore
Replys
Thanks all for the interest and the input, it's great. There seems to be a lot of confusion, and I'm sorry for my poor communication/description skills. If anyone would like a picture of said, modern, still made/available pistons, please go to the KB/ Silv-o-lite web site.Choose silv-o-lite, choose pistons, choose engine (359/361,389/391),or choose diametrical listing (4.050), or numerical #3145d. This is not the only piston # made like this, all though not many others. I've just been trying to obtain some more information about a very narrow/ limited application.
Bear 45/70, I don't know what to say. I have absolutly no intention of starting an argument with you or anyone else here. Perhaps with more/new information you might change your opinion? I am not angry in any way, I disagree with me all the time and occasionaly loose an argument to myself.
OBCB
Bear 45/70, I don't know what to say. I have absolutly no intention of starting an argument with you or anyone else here. Perhaps with more/new information you might change your opinion? I am not angry in any way, I disagree with me all the time and occasionaly loose an argument to myself.
OBCB
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Tuned
Joined: Mar 2009
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From: Napa
Don't worry, obc, you'll run into a lot of that if you hang around here very long- ever see the movie "Grumpy Old Men?
They do indeed make heavy-duty pistons with iron grooves for heavily-loaded FT truck/industrial engines, which do have a tendency to pound out the top ring, especially when driven by Leadfoot Larry. My buddy's shop does a great many wind machine engines which are almost always FT's, and sells a lot of Silvolite stuff.
I had a C700 dump with a 370-4V in it a while back that started knocking up high all of a sudden, great oil pressure, and you could trace the noise to a certain cylinder with the old broomstick. Pulled the head, and a 2" long piece of the top land was gone, and a piece of the broken ring was stuck in the top of the piston vertically, sticking up about 1/4", and hitting the head
They do indeed make heavy-duty pistons with iron grooves for heavily-loaded FT truck/industrial engines, which do have a tendency to pound out the top ring, especially when driven by Leadfoot Larry. My buddy's shop does a great many wind machine engines which are almost always FT's, and sells a lot of Silvolite stuff.
I had a C700 dump with a 370-4V in it a while back that started knocking up high all of a sudden, great oil pressure, and you could trace the noise to a certain cylinder with the old broomstick. Pulled the head, and a 2" long piece of the top land was gone, and a piece of the broken ring was stuck in the top of the piston vertically, sticking up about 1/4", and hitting the head
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From: LaGrande,Ore
Thanks
Must be the moon? Ya I changed my name to Walter Mathow. Was hoping that I could get a little of the theory behind the iron insert, ie. "Leadfoot Larry". The specific engine build I'm researching and its use will entail a heavily loaded truck at very low revs.(chug chug chug up over obsticle with one wheel and then the next off road). Then when the road (dirt/gravel) is reached revs will come up and the too small engine will go to its other extream for the next 50 miles (winding, steep low speed roads) with the occasional 300 mile highway trip. A tall order for anything,hence the research and questions.OBCB
Tuned
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 360
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From: Napa
I think it would depend on whether that's a heavily loaded truck with a genuine FT, or a heavily loaded pickup truck with an FE or pseudo-FT pickup engine, and if it's a competition-type deal or just work? Those pistons are made to be part of the low-RPM, low compression, heavy load FT combination/assembly- not good for a higher RPM app like an off-road racer with an FE type setup.
BTW, the biggest killer of FT's has always been the replacement of the governor carb with a much cheaper base Holley when the owner or shop doesn't know how to rebuild/repair the gov carb, and then 'ol Leadfoot starts revving it around 4000, and boom comes soon- the 391 is supposed to govern around 3400, smaller versions a tad higher. With the low-RPM cam & combo in the typical FT, it'll pull the load just fine and last forever if you shift it at 3000
Sounds like you need a good FT with the governor working properly? BTW, past the 389/391, the 359/361 is pretty much a lionhearted buggar, tough sucker like a 352- the 330 not so much
BTW, the biggest killer of FT's has always been the replacement of the governor carb with a much cheaper base Holley when the owner or shop doesn't know how to rebuild/repair the gov carb, and then 'ol Leadfoot starts revving it around 4000, and boom comes soon- the 391 is supposed to govern around 3400, smaller versions a tad higher. With the low-RPM cam & combo in the typical FT, it'll pull the load just fine and last forever if you shift it at 3000
Sounds like you need a good FT with the governor working properly? BTW, past the 389/391, the 359/361 is pretty much a lionhearted buggar, tough sucker like a 352- the 330 not so much
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From: LaGrande,Ore
Lite load
F600 with 12,000 pay load, or with goose neck trailer with 20,000+ payload. These are payload not gross weights. Current engine is a 330 appears to be all stock but has no governor (carb or dist). Don't need to go fast or speed up quickly, just do the work. F 600s also came with the 300-6. Same power (torque/hp) as the 330. I'm very famillar with these engines(we have 10) while not indestructable, it's not as finiky about rpms and will be cheaper to rebuild. Truck has the low gears,we have the brownie to add,etc. Just wanted to do some research towards an industrial type long life build. I'm the kind that would put all roller valve train with a mild cam simply for longevity. Thats also on the research list. Thanks for the input. OBCB
Tuned
Joined: Mar 2009
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From: Napa
I had a little F600 bobtail dump a few years ago, and while the 330 was a sweet runner, it was a little light on huevos 
Had another, an old N600 short conventional with a 361, and it was a real runner- really strong. I just sold a C700 cabover dump with a nice 391HD that was also a very sweet runner. I do have a spare engine that I had picked up out of a wreck, as a spare for the C700, pretty sure it's a 361, that I'm about to give a physical, and may want to sell- it has bellhousing, clutch, manifolds, pulleys, all that stuff, and I think I have 3 governor 2V carbs in a box upstairs
Had another, an old N600 short conventional with a 361, and it was a real runner- really strong. I just sold a C700 cabover dump with a nice 391HD that was also a very sweet runner. I do have a spare engine that I had picked up out of a wreck, as a spare for the C700, pretty sure it's a 361, that I'm about to give a physical, and may want to sell- it has bellhousing, clutch, manifolds, pulleys, all that stuff, and I think I have 3 governor 2V carbs in a box upstairs
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Elder User
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From: LaGrande,Ore
Pistons
Thanks for the heads up on the parts. We're still trying to acquire the truck. You know the drill , find it ,arm wrestle, etc. and in the mean time dream and what if. Still would like someone to walk me through the theory on the piston inserts. All the info I've gotten makes sence and I understand what I've been told, but just want to go deeper if possable. Anyone?OBCB
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