AUto fatalities were down in 08, and maybe more so in 09. The Transportation Board is linking this to ABS and Stability Control.

I can maybe see ABS, it has its points. Personally, I tend to override it by pumping the brakes, but that's because I've been around a lot longer than it has.

As for stability control, I'm not so sure. I don't think that there's any standard for how it has to work. Also, while it may help in some situations, I would think that it might be a liability in others. (I'm also not sure that there are enough vehicles with stability control to be meaningful)

So, I'm asking if it's ever helped you out -- or screwed you up. I'm leaning against it, but I've been wrong before.

 

When I was young, dumb and full of.......well, you know what I mean, lol, Cars didn't have such things. You stopped quickly by pumping the brakes and if it turned without rolling you made that happen, not some computer. Now that cars do have it, I don't need it usually. The ABS is nice in winter for a panic stop when some ******* pulls a bonehead move in front of me but even then I rarely need it.

Chris

 

Maybe.

I have stability control on my 2004 Lincoln. Most of the time you don't know it is there. Sometimes it will flash the light when you lose traction, like going over railroad tracks etc.

Once I was driving home thru heavy rain, and of course going too fast. There were several cars and trucks nearby by all going about 40-50mph. I was trying to go a bit faster to get ahead of the pack before 4 lanes down to 2.
I felt it start to hydroplane and thought I was going to lose it. Then I felt a weird twitch in the car and suddenly everything was straight and under control again. Usually when I hydroplane in another car I just hang on for the ride until it slows down enough to regain control. This car just kind of shook off the problem and then went on like normal.

I like the control. ALmost never notice it, but I have not had near as many adventures with slick roads as in the past.

So maybe it saved my butt. If I had lost control I probably would have hit one or more vehicles, not good especially since it was right in front of the local Sheriff/CHP office, duh.

Jim Henderson

 

I'm alright w ABS, as you said it's kinda nice in the winter. I really don't care too much whether it has it or not.
I don't like TC and it would be the first thing to go if I bought a new vehicle. I'm driving, not the computer.

 

There were some reports a few years back that ABS didn't reduce the amount of crashes. I dunno why you guys like ABS in the winter cause I think it sucks. The way it works like it was intended is on dry pavement and it is to keep you straight. It does not reduce your braking distance, but increases it. My Saturn has Stabilitrak and traction control. My wife was trying to get up our drive after the first snow and she told me we need snow tires cause the car couldn't make it up the drive. I asked if she shut off the traction control she said uh... no.
I think stability control is a good thing, I'm still waiting to see how well it works and waiting for winter to get here, I think we have had a total of 6" here so far this year, so glad I bought that new Ariens Sno-thro thats been used once!!

 

Every study that I've seen shows ABS reducing the stopping distance and you get to keep steering control to boot. It might feel odd, but even for a oldgoat like me I don't have a problem with it. Now the TC I don't have a car that has it, but the boy's Mazda does and has said that a couple of times the light has flashed on him. I think the basic idea is good, but until I would drive it for a while I will reserve judgement.

 

I believe that ABS shortens stopping distance. The whole point of it is maintaining steering control though. When you lock up your front wheels you lose all steering control, ABS prevents that.

Chris

 

I had a 2004 DeVille with traction control. At first I disabeled it evey time I turned the key but after awhile just ignored it. Can't say if it ever saved my butt because since most of the time it was on so I never knew.

The wife's Audi TT Quatro AWD has traction control by design. It is the sticky'est to the road car that I have ever driven in.

I just wish my pickup had TC. I hate it when I pull out from a stop sign and make a fast turn on a wet road and it does a little wheelspin.

 

I used to have an '03 Jetta with traction control when I lived in Buffalo.

I was driving on a snow-covered road and when I came around a blind corner there was a guy standing next to his mailbox on the short side of the corner. He wasn't in any real danger but I swerved a little so I wouldn't get too close to him. When I did the car fishtailed a bit.

Now, I've done my fair share of donuts in snow-covered parking lots in the winter. When a car fishtails I correct it without even really thinking about it. It's not a big deal to me at all. But the TC kicked in and activated one of the rear brakes. The car straightened out immediately before I could even start to correct it. In less than a second later the car was pointed in the right direction again.

So it didn't really save me but the way the car handled that situation really impressed me.

 

Thats where it almost gets me. I've done alot of drifting in some rally cars and such so its pretty much natural for me to steer out. I was driving a rental with TC and I fishtailed going around a corner on some ice so I naturally counter steered out of it but the TC also snapped it straight which actually over corrected me. I just prefer having it off.

 

Keep in mind Traction Control is different from Stability Control and ABS is just a small part of either.

On the lincolns, most come with traction control. Stability control is on higher end optioned cars.

It has been awhile since I read the exact definitions, but traction control usually just controls the rear wheels, ie braking and power to the axle. It just measures whether the wheels are slipping and adjusts power/brakes to the rear wheels as needed.

Stability control looks for changes in all horizontal directions, ie are you losing traction to the the rear, is the front end losing traction, is the car going sideways, is it spinning etc. It uses several accelerometers to detect if the car is going other that straight and level. It will adjust braking and power to all wheels as needed. It is supposed to be much more effective than just traction control alone. I think it is.

ABS is just the antilock braking which is common on most newer cars. It is really designed around people who just stand on the brakes and slide into stuff. Threshold braking is what experience drivers and professionals used. With experience you learn how hard to hit the brakes and can feel the threshold where the wheels are wanting to skid. At that point you back off a little and keep adjusting as things progress.

Old style pumping the brakes was the inexperienced driver training to prevent drivers from locking up. This is really what ABS was made to replace, ie it pumps the brakes very fast. Better than locking em up but usually not as good as an experienced driver using threshold braking. Supposedly some of the better ABS systems are almost as good or better than an experienced threshold braker.

A lot of problems are coming from drivers who learned the old pump method who switch to ABS. When they pump, the ABS cuts in and out instead of doing the rapid pump routine, so things can be worse for those drivers.

Just stuff from old reading and memory.

Jim Henderson

 

jim,
I'll admit to having done the pumping when in an energency situation. As far as I could tell ABS did not activate when I did this (old habits die hard).

Thanks for discussing the differences between traction control and stability control. I read a lot of auto tech stuff and I have not seen this spelled out before.

I still wonder if there are any standards for either -- other than a mandate to start using them.