1987 Ranger with 2.3 Problems
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Tuned
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 446
Likes: 4
From: Grayling, MI
When it is cold, a properly running system will enrich the mixture a bit to make sure it has enough 'vaporized' to mix with the air. That fact can be enabling it to run when cool. Once it warms up, the ECM lowers the fuel flow, leaving a mixture that is a little harder to ignite. So, you have a sparking problem of some sort.
On the other hand, the EGR is disabled when the engine is cold. Try running it with the vacuum line to the EGR solenoid plugged with a golf tee. It will likely throw a code for the EGR not responding to commands, but you will be able to tell if it helps.
tom
On the other hand, the EGR is disabled when the engine is cold. Try running it with the vacuum line to the EGR solenoid plugged with a golf tee. It will likely throw a code for the EGR not responding to commands, but you will be able to tell if it helps.
tom
L Corwin. Got about 400-500 miles on it now. That is why I did the compression test, to check to see how the rings were seating. They seem to be seating fine. Now that I have the EGR disabled it is running pretty good. Feels like it has more power now than it did before.
Still have to put the new O2 sensor in. Just started a new job and in has been colder than crap here. Hope to get it in this weekend when I can get it in the garage. Will pull the codes on it again next week after I drive it with the new O2 sensor and see if the code 41 goes away. Will let everyone know what becomes of it. Thanks for the halp and advice so far.
Steve
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Joined: Jan 2002
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From: suburban atlanta
FWIW, the MAP sensor sends a signal that is just a Hz, or frequency. The frequency of the 'buzz' that it sends is based upon the vacuum level in the intake manifold. If the vacuum is high, that means there is low demand on the engine, as when the throttle is closed at idle, so the ECM can cut fuel flow a bit for economy. When the vacuum is low, as in at full wide-open throttle, the MAP senses this and sends a signal allowing the ECM to richen up the mixture.
If you remove the MAP and block the vacuum line, the engine should use a 'default' setting, generally a bit richer than 'normal'. If you don't plug the vacuum line, the idle will be erratic.
tom
If you remove the MAP and block the vacuum line, the engine should use a 'default' setting, generally a bit richer than 'normal'. If you don't plug the vacuum line, the idle will be erratic.
tom
Last edited by tomw; Jan 29, 2010 at 06:15 AM. Reason: clarify
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 446
Likes: 4
From: Grayling, MI
FWIW, the MAP sensor sends a signal that is just a Hz, or frequency. The frequency of the 'buzz' that it sends is based upon the vacuum level in the intake manifold. If the vacuum is high, that means there is low demand on the engine, as when the throttle is closed at idle, so the ECM can cut fuel flow a bit for economy. When the vacuum is low, as in at full wide-open throttle, the MAP senses this and sends a signal allowing the ECM to richen up the mixture.
If you remove the MAP and block the vacuum line, the engine should use a 'default' setting, generally a bit richer than 'normal'. If you don't plug the vacuum line, the idle will be erratic.
tom
If you remove the MAP and block the vacuum line, the engine should use a 'default' setting, generally a bit richer than 'normal'. If you don't plug the vacuum line, the idle will be erratic.
tom
Steve
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Joined: Nov 2003
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because you rebuilt the motor, and you are having a mulitude of codes I would take these steps to diagnose the problem.
1.) Learn how to test all your sensors, (don't just arbitrarily change them out) even new sensors can be bad out of the box. Most sensors receive a reference voltage (usually 5 volts) from the PCM, then depending on what the sensor's duty is, it sends voltage back to the PCM and the PCM uses that information to control the engine.
2.) I would not discount that the distributor is off a tooth......so cheke it for proper re-install.
3.) The next thing I would check is the TFI on the distributor.
Just my experience with my 2.9L.
Good luck.
1.) Learn how to test all your sensors, (don't just arbitrarily change them out) even new sensors can be bad out of the box. Most sensors receive a reference voltage (usually 5 volts) from the PCM, then depending on what the sensor's duty is, it sends voltage back to the PCM and the PCM uses that information to control the engine.
2.) I would not discount that the distributor is off a tooth......so cheke it for proper re-install.
3.) The next thing I would check is the TFI on the distributor.
Just my experience with my 2.9L.
Good luck.
Freshman User
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 27
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From: North Alabama
If it's running good with the EGR disconnected then the EGR is good!. It is in the control circuit. By what you described it starts running bad as soon as you connect the EGR vacuum line. If that is the case then you have vacuum on that line all the time. If you follow that vacuum line over to the fender you will find a valve that the ECU controls that opens and closes the EGR. I suspect if you replace that valve your EGR issues will clear up.
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Tuned
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: Grayling, MI
mramelbass,
Been on Ford Fuel Injection and they tell how to test most every sensor on the thing. Give the specs to test to, also. Have tested all of the sensors that have thrown codes but the MAP sensor because I don't have a way to test the frequency. Now that I have the wiring sorted out there is probably nothing wrong with it. The codes I listed in post #5 were the last ones I pulled. Haven't had a chance to pull codes since I put the O2 sensor in. The timing is right on, so I don't think the dizzy is off a tooth and it runs pretty good without the EGR connected, so don't think the TFI is an issue either.
jboren,
There is no vacuum at the EGR at idle. It has issues at part throttle after it is warmed up with the EGR hooked up. Got any ideas on how to check the EGR solenoid on the fender? New vacuum solenoid at Rock Auto is almost $90. Would like to find out if it is junk before replacing it.
Steve
Been on Ford Fuel Injection and they tell how to test most every sensor on the thing. Give the specs to test to, also. Have tested all of the sensors that have thrown codes but the MAP sensor because I don't have a way to test the frequency. Now that I have the wiring sorted out there is probably nothing wrong with it. The codes I listed in post #5 were the last ones I pulled. Haven't had a chance to pull codes since I put the O2 sensor in. The timing is right on, so I don't think the dizzy is off a tooth and it runs pretty good without the EGR connected, so don't think the TFI is an issue either.
jboren,
There is no vacuum at the EGR at idle. It has issues at part throttle after it is warmed up with the EGR hooked up. Got any ideas on how to check the EGR solenoid on the fender? New vacuum solenoid at Rock Auto is almost $90. Would like to find out if it is junk before replacing it.
Steve
Freshman User
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
From: North Alabama
I have teed a vacuum gauge into the line going to the EGR before and watched it while I drove around a little bit. If the vacuum is modulating depending on the throttle position and dropping to zero at idle then the solenoid is working correctly. If you are seeing any vacuum at idle then it is usually bad. I just had to change the one on my 90 because it was leaking through causing a very rough idle condition and setting the CEL. I went to the junkyard and pulled one off a 94 town car with a 4.6 for $5...It's the same solenoid and it is mounted right behind the throttle body on those as I recall. I remember getting sticker shock when I checked on a new one as well.
jb
jb
Freshman User
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
From: North Alabama
One other thing I just thought of to try. Leave the vacuum lines connected to the solenoid and EGR but disconnect the electrical connector on the Solenoid and see if you still have the issues with the EGR. If you do then the solenoid would have to be leaking vacuum through.
jb
jb
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Joined: Jan 2002
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From: suburban atlanta
I think I would check the fuel pressure regulator right about now. If you disconnect the MAP sensor, it should run OK. It would use 'default' load settings at a given rpm/throttle position/ etc. The 'default' should be able to make the truck run w/o missing, chugging, bucking whatever word you like. A bad MAP WILL fritz the idle as it wanders the fuel flow back and forth in response to ghost 'inputs' of the vacuum in the intake. Idle is much more susceptible to MAP dysfunction.
You did the sparky part, now check the fuel & air parts of the triad, no?
tom
You did the sparky part, now check the fuel & air parts of the triad, no?
tom
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