I'm running a 01 7.3 Diesel. The injectors seem to be on their way out. I'm looking for improvement in fuel economy without power loss(slight power improvement with improved fuel economy always accepted).

Which option is best:
STOCK injectors with tuner
AC Single Shot injectors with appropriate tuner
Single Shot Stage 1 or equivelent injector with appropriate tuner
OTHER?

Do I go NEW Alliant injectors or REMAN injectors?
Who are reputable & affordable suppliers of Injectors?

 

Beans, Swamps, Casserly seem to be in the top 5 around here for realibilty. Give Clay a call at Riffraff Diesel, he'll square you away as to what you'll need and his prices are great. Riffraff Diesel

 

go with some stage 1 single shots.....

those will net you about 65 more ponies and give you better mpg's.......

im getting mine from swamps.......

 

That's what I would do as well.
If you want the ultimate, order up a set of new Alliants converted over to single shots.
Reason I say that is I've had a "less than good" experience ordering a set of rebuilt injectors. They ran worse than the ones that I pulled out.

 

If you decide to go brand new, I have a complete set of AD injectors for sale. Never used, never installed, still in package.

They sell for $290/each at dealer ($2320 for all 8).. I would sell for about 1/2 that with core exchange (I need to return cores).

 

For the record, ACs *are* Stage 1 singles (160cc). So are Swamps 175/146s (175cc). The Swamps become Stage 2s with larger nozzles (they can dump their fuel into the cylinder faster, thus more power). I don't know if anyone work the ACs or not, but I know Casserly puts out some DAMN good sticks......

I got a really nice mileage bump going to singles, even as big as mine are. Went from a best of about 19 to a tad over 22.

EDIT: To answer your question, I'd got with either the 160cc ACs or the slightly larger Casserly/Swamps stage 1s. I also suggest you think about a lager turbo, at least a 1.0 housing, or van turbo. You're going to be really working over the stocker...

 

Hi Joe

I understood from an injector shop that the AC injectors were smaller than the AD. On the other hand the AD injectors release in two stages. How is an AC injector then a Stage 1?

 

Here is a good post from one of the other members:

Larger nozzles- By installing larger nozzles you are makeing the nozzles less restrictive so that more fuel will flow out of them with everything else being the same. Stock injectors with stock programming and larger nozzles will get more fuel out and make more power. Stock injectors only modified to have more fuel capacity with stock nozzles and stock programing will run exactly like stock injectors. In this case the only way to get more fuel out is with a chip to extend the open time of the injector and/or increase the Injection Control Pressure (ICP) to push more fuel out the nozzle. On the same note if you say make a hybrid (installing a larger 7mm plunger and barrel out of a DT466/I530E injector) and leaving the intensifier piston the same will effectively reduce your injection pressure. This less injection pressure will make less pressure at the nozzle and will actually flow less fuel with a stock nozzle than a bone stock injector. So to get the fuel out without a chip you would need larger nozzles.
There is also a point where the stock nozzle just wont flow enough fuel to get the desired amount out in a realisitic time frame. That's why high capacity injectors require larger nozzles to use that capacity.
Codes- All powerstroke and T444Es come with A code injectors. A code injectors have a 6.0mm plunger and a 16mm intensifier piston. What this does is multiply the ICP so that injection pressure is adiquate but not having to have huge amounts of ICP like say in the 20,000 psi range. This difference give you approximately a 7:1 difference and therefore increases your injection pressure 7 psi for every 1 psi of ICP.
All DT466s and I530E injectors are B codes. Of those some DT466s and all I530Es have a 7.1mm plunger, hense more fuel per mm of stroke, with a 17.5mm intensifier piston. This gives you approximately a 6:1 ratio. So no it will not have quite as high of ICP as as the A codes but it's not as bad as it could be. However due to the larger intensifier piston they reqire much more high pressure oil to make the piston stroke the same distance. This is why you need a high pressure oil system with a higher capacity.
Hybrid injectors are taking the 7.1mm plunger and barrel out of a BD code I530E injector and installing it into an A code injector with a 16mm intensifier piston. As you could imagine the down fall is that the injection ratio is dropped to approximatly 5:1 further decreasing injection pressure. However with the smaller intensifier piston it requires no more oil than an equivilant A code yet it flows the same amount of fuel as a B code. The result is much more fuel capacity without the need for more high pressure oil volume.
A codes and B codes can be further broken down as well.
A and AA injectors came in the '94-'97 non-california trucks. They are all 90cc injectors and are single shots.
AB injectors came in the '97 cali, and all early '99 trucks. They are split shot injectors meaning they fire a small pilot shot before the main shot. These injectors flow 130-135cc of fuel.
AC injectors are found in the high torque version of the T444E and do not come in any Powerstrokes. They have the same internals as the AB injectors with the exception of the single shot plunger and barrel. However due to them being single shot injectors they flow 160cc. This is due to the way the split shots work. They have a small passage that opens, much like a port in a two stroke engine, that are uncovered that bypass the injection pressure out the side of the barrel instead of out the end through the nozzle. Because of this pause a portion of the travel of the plunger does nothing for injecting fuel so a split shot injects less fuel for the same amount of travel as a single shot.
AD injectors are also split shot but flow 135-140cc of fuel due to a slightly longer plunger stroke. These are found in all late '99-'03 Powerstrokes and T444Es.
AE and AF injectors are essentially the same as AD injectors but were called a long lead injector that was used as an attempt to cure a "cackle" issue many people complained about.
BA, BB, and BC injectors are essentiall all the same and are the same as AC injectors but are found in some DT466s.
BD injectors are the only B codes with the larger 7.1mm plunger and barrel that are single shot injectors. These are the injectors people are usually talking about when they are talking about putting I530E injectors in their Powerstrokes.
BE injectors are essentially the same as the AD injectors but found in some '97-'99 DT466s.
EF, BG, BI, BJ, BN and BP injectors all have basicly the same capacity and are split shots. However the nozzles vary on them depending on application. They can be found in many DT466s and I530Es.

 

As you can see from Clay's post, ACs flow 160cc. Stock split-shots flow 135ish cc. They are larger injectors, and they use A LOT less HP oil, so it's a win-win-win situation. More power, less HP oil, and better mileage. The only down side is that they'll run kind of crappy on stock tuning, so you're pretty much locked in to having a tuner on your truck all the time.

EDIT: Something just occurred to me. Is it possible to flash a stock PCM with single-shot tuning??? I might consider that, just to simplify things if I ever move away from Tony and have to ship **GASP** my chip off to get tunes.

 

I would think so, but maybe we can get DP, PHP, Swamps, and/or Tony (and anyone else) to give us a confirmation on that option. I just ordered up a PMT2 ECU and it should be at the house next week some time....

 

*grin* Went through something similar - ended up ordering my stage 2's and DP tuner from clay, with the DP already programmed to run my injectors. He saved me a ton of leg work and his customer service is top notch. Couldn't have beat the price either.

He used my vin to make sure to give me the correct tune for my ecu, so with an intake and exhaust, I didn't have to spend hours figuring it all out on my own. I'm obviously a huge fan of the forums - but there's a lot to be said for a voice over the phone telling you outright what'll work, what'll work better and what won't without having to spend quite so many hours reading up on the subject. Clay is a good guy and won't sell you something you don't need. The best part is being able to 'justify' all of it as maintenance, since I needed injectors anyway...

The guys who posted above are right - by the time you spend $ on injectors, it makes just as much sense to upgrade for a little more while you have everything apart. Doing the PCM adds a little extra cost, but not only do you get more power - you get enough improvement in fuel economy that it'll likely pay for itself in a year or two of driving anyway. :-)

 

Yes, you can flash a custom tune on a PCM so that you don't have to run a chip.

 

New injectors are always an awesome way to go, but it depends on your pocketbook. Reman injectors can be just as good as new if they are done by a quality person such as Casserly or Swamps. Unfortunately there are many companies that consider a reman injector to mean function test and new o-rings, nothing more. If they are done correctly everything will be new except for the solenoid and the injector body. Andrew (JKidd39) can add in his experiences with Ford Reman and "internet" reman injectors as well. I personally run reman in my trucks and will be upgrading shortly to another larger set. Nothing wrong with reman, just know who you are buying from. Sorry to hear about your bad experiences Dan, I know how that can be spendy.

 

Which ones are you stuffing in now Clay?

 

I just put Beans Stage 1's and their 6 posistion tuner in my truck. I'm satisfied.
Way more power , and I mean WAY MORE.