The rare exception to your above comments --- sound advice --- is in extreme climates, e.g. Alaska where the additional protection is required to below -50.

While in theory, 60% gets you to -50F, over the life of the coolant (years, up to 7 by manufacturer specs), its properties changes --- and in the case of some vehicles where the owner may have added water in the mean time, the freeze point can be actually much higher.

Without actual tests (controlled conditions, in a laboratory grade freezer) and instruments, it is not necessarily easy to tell what the freeze point is.

The old fashioned method of measuring specific gravity is not very accurate.

So for those reasons --- and only in extreme conditions --- there is a call to go higher.

By the same measure, those extreme conditions are also going to make it far less likely for the coolant or the cooling systems to be worked hard --- heat removal is probably your last problem at -40F or below.


Ford designs cars for the "middle range", and for extremes at either end (very hot or very cold), there is nothing wrong with tweaking their formula a bit --- when you know what you are doing.

FYI, I went with 50/50, because I do not believe I will encounter more than short bouts of -40F and because I change the coolant every 3 years, making sure that it is fresh and to spec.

 

I'm really puzzled by your response when looking at all the modifications you have listed at the bottom of all your posts. Which of those meets Fords original design requirements and do not impact the original design intent and design performance in one way or another. What benefits were you expecting when you made all those expensive modification to Fords perfect 6 sigma design which was produced in a factory with 100% quality control processes. There was no need for all those changes right?? The Ford trucks are perfect, have no need for power enhancers right (all those power enhancers people add go way beyond Fords original design)?

I'm puzzled when you suggest that increasing Zerex G05 antifreeze concentration to greater then 60% will, could, might cause engine damage. How can you support your rational when the specific language of the Fords owner manual states only that "coolant concentrations above 60% will decrease the overheat protection characteristics of the engine coolant". The language refers to the "coolant" and changing the overheat coolant characteristic not the thermal dynamics of the heat transfer. Fords does not know what coolant one will put in their vehicle, without a crystal ball they can only refer to their own(Ford Premium Gold) which based on the specific language in the owner guide appears to considerably degrade at concentration levels greater then 60% (as did the old green stuff). One could concluded that Ford Premium Gold is an old inferior mix antifreeze(look at all the changes owners are making to their Ford trucks.....is it really a perfect design).As a matter of fact according to Zerex G05 data sheet, the freeze and overheat protection is at its best at a concentration of 70%.

I have used manufacturers data sheets (or owners guide) when asking the questions on using higher then 60% concentration levels, what reference material do you use when you respond with your comments (way back, this was the original question asked) ???

Personally I do not limit my travels to just one US state or a particular time of season or even totally count on expecting very accurate weather forcasts. I personally do not want to get out one winter night to adjust the antifreeze concentration when it is a real -34 F plus winds of 30 to 40 MPH (I do not have a heated garage which the truck will fit in and allow me to close the doors). A friend of mine which I vist in northern Wisc (Couderay specifically) has told me about his winters with real temps as cold as -55 to -60 F(without wind chill), the last time I looked at a US map Wis is not very close to Alaska but it is relatively close to northern Ill.

 

Ford clearly says that engine damage may occur over 60% concentration. Ljutic ss stated it and so did you. Your positions seems to be that someone else's G05 coolant may be different enough from Ford's that you can operate over 60%. You may be right, but then again you may be wrong. My SUPPOSITION (based on engineering and design background) is that Ford has looked at the overall cooling system and made their recommendation based on that. In fact I know they model the flow rates, heat exchange areas, and fluid characteristics to set their recoomended operating parameters.

If your reasons justify to yourself to try it - then go for it and sincerely good luck. There is always a saftey margin in any design. However, I know how fluid physical properties affect heat transfer and the areas to be concerned with in designing heat removal equipment. That is why I would not ever advise any one to try it.

Here is some information on ethylene glycol mixtures and how significantly the viscosity increases and specifically the heat capacity decreases when the concentration changes from 50% to 70% (higher viscosity reduces flow rates and lower heat capacites reduce the coolants ability to remove heat).
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/et...col-d_146.html

Your first paragraph is quite an emotional ramble. Not sure how it applies to anything.

BTW - the record low temp in Wisconsin is -55 degrees F, Illinois' is -36 degrees F (check out USA Today).

 

I love it when someone goes to a gun fight with a knife.

 

bismic - it is unfortunate when a memeber wants to take the high ground rather then view the positngs from sharing ideas, thoughts and information. All that I asked is show me the data as any engineer would be expected to provide, the link you provided does not appear to support any specific manufacturers blend of antifreeze. I have not been able to locate Fords Premium Gold antifreeze data sheet on the internet but I have been able to do so for 6 other blends of G05. It appears that you want to get the last word in without supporting it with any concrete information. My wife likes doing that also.

In interpreting the Ford owners guide there appears nothing to support the claims you are making about using a 70% concentration of Zerex G05 being harmful to the engine. Where as when analyzing a specific antifreeze manufacturers data sheet leads one to ask why not based on that manufacturer supplied data. Yes, you can argue that the manufacturer is presenting false data because they just want to sell their product but thats up to their ethical values, I can only view it as valid unless otherwise proven invalid.

side bar: my friend in Wis runs a business where he has to count on the equipment working through the winter months, he may not have the most accurate equipment for measuring temps but it appears to be relatively close based on the calibration methode he uses. And he has recorded real temps of -55 to -60 F. I'm sure that all the residents of Wis are not queried for their each respective temp readings when temp extremes for a state are published.

 

The viscosity characteristics and the heat transfer characteristics of a coolant fluid are primarily driven by the glycol/water mix. The other additives are small percentages and are primarily for corrosion protection. The charts are applicable to all ethylene glycol blends. Not sure why Zerex G05 is perceived to be of some superior capability.

There is nothing especially different between the Zerex G05 and the Ford Premium Gold. Look up the MSDS sheets on it. I also believe that you will find 60% coolant strength good for over -60*F if you really research it.

Your post #17 was an emotional post. Up until then the thread was a technical discussion. I asked you some hard questions in post #14, but they were certainly not poorly worded or emotional.

As I said before - I sincerely wish you well, but you are the one ignoring written (Ford) statements for some perceived difference between brands of G05 coolant. My perspective is (as I stated in post #14) - why would anyone risk it? Clearly you believe that you have reason to.