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1987 - 1996 F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks 1987 - 1996 Ford F-150, F-250, F-350 and larger pickups - including the 1997 heavy-duty F250/F350+ trucks

Progress Thread for Troubleshooting Idling/Stalling Problem

 
  #16  
Old 11-18-2009, 04:32 PM
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Yes, it went to the floor. I'm not planning to just start buying new sensors- I intend to test every sensor that's necessary before just replacing it. And yes, a new computer has crossed my mind, but I'm just not that far along yet.
 
  #17  
Old 11-19-2009, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by DBGrif91 View Post

Edit: By the way, something I wanted to mention. For those who don't know, the KOER test, whether done with or without a code reader, requires the testing of certain things during the test if your vehicle is equipped with them. These being the Power Steering Pressure [PSP] switch, the Brake On/Off [BOO] circuit, and the Overdrive Cancel Switch. [See fordfuelinjection.com for more info] Because of this, especially if you're not sure if your vehicle has these sensors [and I wasn't, so I tested them], it's more handy to be in the cab. If you don't have a code reader, you can be in the cab anyway. But if you have one like I did, you can't operate/read the code reader from inside the cab during the test because the EEC connectors are too short. Now, of course, the manufacturer of my code reader had their special 6 foot extension cord available for sale for this situation. But, unless you want to spend the money on it [I personally didn't bother checking on its price], there's another way to get the code reader in the cab.

First, I determined which connections the code reader needed to make with the EEC connectors. In my case there were 3 connections to be made. My father has a lot of spare wire lying around, so I took 3 lengths of 14 gauge stranded wire. I kept the measurement simple by just stretching them from hand to hand with arms outstretched. On one end of each wire I attached male spade connectors and on the other end I attached female spade connectors. I then taped the wires together at about 12" intervals to make a basic extension cord. Keep in mind that for this application it is only sender wires, so the extra length doesn't affect anything.

I just wanted to share that with you guys in case you needed or wanted the information.
Grif,

That is a rather daunting array of codes! I wondered about a new EEC too, but I am by no means knowledgeable about these things. Unfortunately, I can't add anything to your analysis at this time--but I think you're on the right track, by testing as much as you can, sensor-wise, etc....

I do know I want a code reader that counts for me, like yours, because, I too had a helluva time counting the flashes on an older-style code reader a friend gave me. I recently read that some years of truck had two digit flashes, and some three--I wondered if I had trouble counting because I was expecting one, but getting the other? Either way, I'm interested in how you like the code reader.

Of course, I was running between the cab and the reader, because my leads were too short too, so the "jump down, turn-around" routine called for in those tests wasn't helping my concentration much, either.

Re: your connector-extension: can you clarify: were able to simply connect an extension or jumper between your reader's EEC-cable plug and the reader itself, with garden-variety spade connectors? Because if so, I'm definitely going to do that too!

What was the brand/model of your code reader, again? (Too lazy to look for it--LOL).

Good luck with your diagnostic logic tree.

Big Six
 
  #18  
Old 11-19-2009, 09:04 AM
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Here is a good reader, it is the one I use.


You can get it at most auto part stores or at this URL:
http://www.amazon.com/Equus-3145-For...8642845&sr=8-1

And the extension cord:
http://www.amazon.com/Equus-Ford-Rea...=pd_sim_auto_2

/
 
  #19  
Old 11-20-2009, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by BigSix1 View Post
I do know I want a code reader that counts for me, like yours, because, I too had a helluva time counting the flashes on an older-style code reader a friend gave me. I recently read that some years of truck had two digit flashes, and some three--I wondered if I had trouble counting because I was expecting one, but getting the other? Either way, I'm interested in how you like the code reader.

Of course, I was running between the cab and the reader, because my leads were too short too, so the "jump down, turn-around" routine called for in those tests wasn't helping my concentration much, either.

Re: your connector-extension: can you clarify: were able to simply connect an extension or jumper between your reader's EEC-cable plug and the reader itself, with garden-variety spade connectors? Because if so, I'm definitely going to do that too!

What was the brand/model of your code reader, again? (Too lazy to look for it--LOL).

Good luck with your diagnostic logic tree.

Big Six
See the picture Subford posted above- that's the exact same one I have. I bought mine at my local parts store [O'Reillys] for $30 plus tax. It's hard to read from the pic, but the brand name is Innova, model 3145. Which truck are you planning to use it for? It should work for all the trucks in your signature except for the 97.

On the extension I made- yes, it's just a "jumper cable" so to speak. The spade connectors I used were "garden variety"- size .250" to be exact- that size should be printed on the package somewhere. I bought them off the shelf at O'Reillys as well.

Like I said, I needed 3 connections. The code reader is equipped with 4 connectors- 3 for the big plug and one for the single pin connector. I only needed 2 connections off the big plug and the single pin, so I just attached male/female spades to each end of each wire. The male spades hooked into the EEC plugs and the females hooked to my code reader. You got an email? I've tried both posting a pic of it on the boards and just providing a link but neither one works for some reason, but I can probably email it to you.

I love this code reader. It displays codes digitally- I don't have to count blinks like some other code readers or when you're doing the tests without one. The reason I bought it is because I was having the same trouble you were- at first I didn't know if I was looking for 2 or 3 digit codes, and I managed to do a KOEO test once I figured out that I was counting 3 digit codes, but the KOER test was just too much. It's made the tests so much easier. I could be wrong, but I think I remember reading on here that 91 is the year when they started using 3 digit codes, so I would think that your 72, 81, and 88 trucks will have 2 digit codes, but don't quote me on that.

Good luck with getting your code reader and working on your truck(s).
 
  #20  
Old 11-20-2009, 07:37 PM
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Yes I have an 89 and it is two digit codes. I just ground out the one single connector under the hood. I just leave the single wire attached to the ground on the inside fender and then it takes me less then a minute to start the test. A code reader is nice though. Any updates on the truck yet I just put a new EVP on my truck today hopefully that will take care of one of the codes.
 
  #21  
Old 11-24-2009, 07:07 AM
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Just wanted to let you guys know that I haven't forgotten about my mission with this thread- I just haven't had a chance to get any more work done on it. It was a home project weekend and I didn't have the time to tinker with the beast. It's not supposed to be a good week weather-wise either, so if I do any work this week it's gonna take a drive to my parents house to use their garage, otherwise it's just gonna have to wait for a nice day or next weekend.

That and I seem to have misplaced my service manual, so until I find it there's not much farther I can go.
 
  #22  
Old 11-26-2009, 06:39 AM
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Well hopefully Saturday I can really put some time in with my truck. The weather is supposed to be decent and with a 4 day weekend ahead of me, I don't see why I can't. I still haven't found my service manual but I'll get it found before I start in- need it to run the tests I wanna do.

Anyway, something I wanted to note since I reset the timing- I've noticed the engine kind of bucks at certain times. It won't do it when the engine is under load, like if I'm sitting at a stop light or when it's under fairly heavy acceleration, or at highway speeds. But if it's just idling, or if I'm cruising thru town it will. Again not under acceleration, but once I get up to speed- say 35 mph- and only use the gas to maintain speed, it will. So I'm wondering about the work the PO's have done to it. I couldn't say for certain how far off the timing was but it may have been altered if they'd done any modifications to require it.

It doesn't feel like a terrible bucking- it actually feels more like there's cylinders either missing or misfiring. But I suppose I'll be able to dig more into it once I get it to a garage.
 
  #23  
Old 11-26-2009, 07:50 AM
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Good thread keep plugging away, I doubt if its the computer.
I had the same issue on the bucking under light load and it turned out to be a bad #3 ignition wire terminal.
Happy Thanksgiving
Thank You Henry
rikard
 
  #24  
Old 11-27-2009, 09:42 PM
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Okay, today I finally got to work on the beast some more. I think I solved the hesitating/erratic idle issue!!!

Well... kind of.

I drove to my parents house for the day as my dads garage and multiple tools were of use to me, but it's pretty isolated from auto parts stores. So my oxygen sensor and TPS tested bad. I was prepared for this, as I bought both sensors before heading out there. Replaced the o2 sensor making sure not to contaminate the flutes as I was doing so. Then I replaced the TPS, which required removing the throttle body to do so. Since I had it apart I decided to clean it. YES- I made sure to use TB cleaner and I didn't do any scraping on the inside of the pipes. The cleaner pretty much blasted thru all the gunk save for a couple of small spots, then I just used compressed air to blast it clean. I also match marked the old TPS to properly align the new one.

And I think the new TPS is what cured the hesitation/erratic idle problem. Not once since getting the truck back together and driving it have I noticed the hesitation OR the erratic idle. I purposely started the truck after shutting it off and the idle holds steady- except for the symptoms I've noticed since readjusting the timing.

SO, I think TPS was the core of the problem for why I started this thread, but I need to figure out these new symptoms first just to make certain.

Personally I think it's vacuum leak somewhere. The fact that it doesn't really buck/sputter under acceleration or at highway speeds is a good indicator. The engine is working enough that it's drawing in more air and so it's compensating for the difference. But when it's at cruising speed or idle, the engine is getting more air than it needs. That and it's my experience that these symptoms point to a vacuum leak.

So if I get some more time this weekend, I'm going to work on checking for vacuum leaks.
 
 
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