1992 Mustang GT. 5.0L stroked to 331 with a Vortech S-trim making 14psi. It's got a lot more than that too but I don't feel like taking up a whole page. lol. I used to have a 6 speed trans from a Dodge Viper in it, even had the Viper emblem cast into the side, having your driveshaft spin twice as fast as the crankshaft sure is nice! I can post a link if you are interested in where that came from and how it works in a fox. Now I'm running a built AOD with 4R70W guts, 4500 stall, trans brake and manual valve body. Still has AC, leather etc. Chrome moly 8 point roll bar and chrome moly K-frame. Built it all myself.

And with the reference to the 80s on the VIN stamping it looks like I will have to try to find the VIN on that 351m out of my 1977 F-150. I have not seen it on there but I really am confident that I can find it. All the rest of them that I have seen with my own eyes are 80s and 90s.

 

This thread went so quick last night , I will ask again. Thanks for the info so far.

 

I don't ever think a 73-79 Ford truck is going to get as concourse as a 65 Vette.

I have yet to see a VIN stamped on anything other than the frame and door jambs. On some trucks there is a buck tag on the bed and under the firewall which will have the last 5 or 6 of the VIN # on it but that is about it.

 

also not to start a fire storm, not sure if this was covered all ready, i read through most of all this,

but in a Ford part number the 3rd digit does describe the model the part was built for, like a Mustang or Torino or a truck etc etc,

example,

C5ZZ-2140-CR

C - Decade of Manufacture - 1960's in this case
5 - Decade Year - This is a '65
Z - Car line - Mustang
Z - Ford Service Part - This came from the Engineering Department
2140 - Basic part number - 2140 is a master cylinder
CR - Design Change - indicates manual disc brakes

thus you can at least figure out if its a truck or car part, which would id a engine or transmission or rear end or any other car parts that are interchangeable between trucks, thus you can tell if a truck has original "truck parts" so if you find a car part number, than you can assume its not original

but in the end, who really cares if its numbers matching, these trucks will never be on the same collectible level as Mustangs or other classic cars, so lets just enjoy these trucks, and not worry if there numbers matching, which is kinda impossible to prove, since the parts don't have vin numbers in the part number,

-Brent

 

The "numbers matching" thing is different per vehicle. They basically want the engine, trans, rearend & gear ratio & every other feature to match the build sheet codes. When you do a "restored to original" condition car, like that '65 Vette, you find EVERYTHING that would have been year, make & model specific. Documentation could be the only TRUE way to know if the parts on a restoration are, in fact, the parts that came on the vehicle when new. BTW, what aroused your interest on the subject???

 

I was reading a thread here yesterday about a nice clean original truck a member just bought. Some of the other members were going on about how great it is that it is a numbers matching truck.

I am asking to know what is the true meaning of numbers matching on any ford, not just trucks. This has been helpful information. I personally do not care if my rear gears have been swapped or motor has been changed. I agree that a truck with a 429 is worth more to me than a 6 cylinder. I do not really care how it got there as long as it was done correctly and is still safe after the mods had been made. I have done this type of swap a few times.

My cousin has a 1969 fastback mustang. He has receipts for just parts totaling over 32,000 dollars. None of that counts for the labor that my uncle, my cousin, and myself have put into it. I do not think that he will ever get the appraised value out of the car if he were to sell it. Not that he will. He also has a 1966 fastback that was a 200 sprint car that now has receipts totaling over 60, 000 dollars in parts. It is far from original.

As nice as these two cars are, they were not fun to build. Even now when I am around them, I am nervous. They are very nice to look at and handle great. It just is not me.

Do not get me wrong, the trucks I have now were low mileage original or second owner trucks. I do value a car or truck to take on that has not been molested by a previous owner. (no repaint, wires unmolested, interior maintained,driveline maintained, etc.) It took me a few years to realize the difference.

All in all I think the term numbers matching (on a ford) is thrown around a little loosely. As Bill (numberdummy) said I am a hobbyist not a historian and do recognize the difference. I have been around fords my entire life and always am corrected on things I thought I might know from this site and Bill.

Thanks everyone.

 

I agree 100%.

 

Again, ultimately humbled by the omniscient NumberDummy. In my heart of hearts I just knew I had a numbers matching truck after I dropped the transmission pan and found the original transmission filter. I was told the truck was no longer original because I didn't put the 31 year old filter back in the transmission.... so, instead of calling it original, I decided I would call it a numbers matching truck. Now I cannot call it a numbers matching truck because no such animal exists.

Guess it will have to be my low mileage, unmolested truck that have a lot of parts that still say Ford on it.

Oh, well...

People still pull over when I stop and get gas just to say I have a nice truck... so my feelings aren't terribly hurt....

Thanks for the info guys, because I was also curious about the numbers matching trucks.... the nonexistent vehicle. Wow.

 

Don't count me out yet. I have not made it to my uncles to check on my old 351m yet but I do believe I will find the last 6 of the VIN stamped on the block. I've read about 10 different sources that say it was started in 1968 and every vehicle I have checked has had it, though they were from the 80s and 90s. I already have a picture of the title of my 1977 F-150 saved to my computer ready to post. I emailed my brother and asked him to get the pic of the number on the block for me. He knows where to look, he's seen these numbers on his own as well.

On a side note. Numberdummy. I have a NOS hood emblem in the original box and I don't know what it is. B9A-16644-A‏ Any idea?

 

I have to say that I do think that numbers matching is confused with documented original.

If you have two complete cars professionally restored to equal standards. The only difference being that car #1 is from original owner and car #2 is third owner. The documentation would be equal but the only difference is one owner and third owner. does that mean if the third owner car is just a little cleaner it is worth less than the original owner car?

What is the standard?

Is this impossible to answer?

 

first today, according to Jermafenser, a restored truck is not an original truck....

Quote came from: Restoration Defined (It was in this thread that I had decided to just call my truck a numbers matching truck instead of original.... )

And the current thread says that a numbers matching is a nonexistent beast.

first today, you have fun with Jermafenser.

 

I like how you just assume there is no such things as number matching just because someone says so with no proof.
Numberdummy said he thinks they started stamping the VINs in the late or mid 80s, but there is no proof. If he posted something (documentation) that said, for example, that Ford started stamping the last 6 of the VIN on the block in 1987, well that would be proof that they did not do it in 1977. I have not seen anything like this.
The oldest Fords that I have seen with my own eyes that were numbers matching (refering to the last 6 of the VIN being stamped on the block are my 1985 Mustang and my brother old 1985 Mustang. Since number Numberdummy says it was started in late to mid 80s, I wont worry about posting that one, it's mid 80s. So it would be said that it doesn't count plus the thread is about 73-79 Fords anyway. But I can garantee you that my 85 Mustangs last 6 of the VIN is on the block. I just looked at it a few days ago.
It gets dark before I get home from work now but I'm off work on Thursday. If my brother doesn't get me the pic of the VIN on that 1977 351m block by then, then I'll get it myself. I just gotta hope the engine was never swapped or the numbers wont match. Even if it was, my uncle has so many of these trucks I'm confident I will find the proof elsewhere, its just tough to get a clear pic when the engine is still in the vehicle.
Well I am done posting in this thread unless I am specifically addressed or I have pictures that show the proof.

 

I don't see why anyone would care about matching #'s. These trucks are not and will never be very valuable, there were too many made. They will never have the prestigue or value of collector cars like a COPO Camaro or Hemi cuda.

 

You'd be getting back to the old saying, "It's only worth what someone is willing to pay." Generally speaking, the one owner car would be 'worth more' than the three owner car. Always remember cars are like women, guys always want one that nobody else has been in! Of course this only counts if you're planning on keeping them. Sorry, ladies!

 

Vintage automobiles: Original restoration of antique vehicles has advantage

October 23, 2009 @ 12:00 AM

The Herald-Dispatch

The original type of restoration will be described in this column followed by modified (custom) restoration in the next published column. One of the first individual decisions to be made in beginning the restoration of an antique or classic vehicle is whether it will be restored to original condition as factory-built or modified from its original production features, which is also called custom restoration.

By definition, an antique vehicle is one that is a minimum of 25 years of age or older. Some vehicles are termed as being classic if they are at least 15 years old, were produced in extremely small numbers and/or had rare or unusual features. In a broader sense and as commonly used, a classic vehicle refers to any vehicle that is relatively old in age.
Advantages

A vehicle restored to an original condition represents its exact historical features and accuracy as built when it left the factory in new condition. The vehicle will have exactly the same paint color, upholstery, engine, tires, trim and all other components that were installed when originally built as a new vehicle.

A second benefit of originally restored vehicles is they typically have twice or greater monetary value than modified (custom) restorations of the same year, make and model. For example, a 1957 Chevrolet Bel Air convertible that has been completely and originally restored has a current sale value of $80,000 to $120,000, depending upon factory options and its condition. A modified (custom) restoration for the same car would lower its sale value to less than half of this amount.

A third advantage of original restoration is that for many national and some local antique vehicle show events, the restored car or truck is judged in accordance with having all of the exact original features as when factory built. Modified vehicles do not generally qualify for these events and if entered lose points for non-original features in the judging process.

A fourth advantage of doing an original vehicle restoration is that many members of the general public attend antique vehicle shows and events. When people view the vehicle, they are conveyed the accurate historical vehicle appearance for the year, make and model that it represents. For restored modified vehicles, it is often impossible to determine the year, make or model due to non-factory changes that were performed during restoration.

A fifth benefit of originally restored vehicles is that they appreciate faster in value than modified versions of the same year, make and model. The greater cost of original restoration is offset by higher sales value and better long-term investment.
Considerations

The restoration of a vehicle to its factory-built features generally costs $30,000 to $35,000 or more, depending upon the vehicle restorable condition and its year, make and model. A modified (custom) restoration could be done for less than half of this amount due to non-usage of more expensive parts needed in original restoration.

Original restoration sometimes requires investigation or research time to determine the correct factory-built features for the vehicle which is not necessary in modified restoration. Sources of original parts are also more difficult and time-consuming to locate, also more expensive than for those utilized in modified restoration. Future maintenance of the vehicle therefore becomes more expensive than for modified restorations.

In essence, original restoration of a vehicle requires much more time, effort and expense than for modified restoration.

Jay O'Dell is a senior master judge and exhibitor of antique show cars. Suggestions for column content or other inquiries can be sent to him at P.O. Box 469, Lavalette, WV 25535.


This is another forum that explains numbers matching.
matching numbers car - Mustang Monthly Forums at Mustang Monthly Magazine

I have to say, I think I have a better grasp on what they refer to as numbers matching. I am way to lazy and will not lose sleep over a casting number not being correct on my autos.
If it looks good, runs good, and makes me smile...it's all I need.