Cam selection
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,165
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From: Near Los Angeles
Cam selection
My rebuilder says he can have a cam cut to any specs, for quite a bit less than what I would pay for a name brand cam.
He also says the quality is the same. I'd like to know what everyone thinks about that. Should I stick with one of the major names to avoid any chance of early wear?
He also says the quality is the same. I'd like to know what everyone thinks about that. Should I stick with one of the major names to avoid any chance of early wear?
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2009
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X2. From what I have read you have been through a lot and I am surprised you haven't just chucked the whole project out the window. You are a patient person, but I wouldn't be too patient with trying new things right now.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,165
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From: Near Los Angeles
I went with tried and true on the first build, and that went to the dogs. By feeding the information through you guys, I am hoping to resolve the issues. I don't want to cut any corners. All I want is lasting quality, and am willing to pay for it.
Until I break down the first engine and see and understand why it failed, I am still shooting in the dark, but trying to exhaust my magazine so that nothing gets past me! I thought I covered all bases the first time around, but something got missed, either from the machinist, or during the assembly. Now I am relying on feedback from FTE guys to answer the occasional question and steer me right.
Until I break down the first engine and see and understand why it failed, I am still shooting in the dark, but trying to exhaust my magazine so that nothing gets past me! I thought I covered all bases the first time around, but something got missed, either from the machinist, or during the assembly. Now I am relying on feedback from FTE guys to answer the occasional question and steer me right.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,165
Likes: 375
From: Near Los Angeles
Interesting bit of rebuild info.
I am dying to take the engine apart and find out why it failed. But since I am using the truck, I can't do that until the new engine is ready.
However, I told the rebuilder about how the bearing I changed all seemed to have worn to copper on the outside edge. He said that on some hot rods the machine shop will do a 'racing' grind on the crank, and actually grind the crank more on the outside edges. Of course he explained why, but I can't remember why.
He also said that if the shop did that, and then normal bearings were used in the rebuild, that would explain why it failed. Copper after 700 miles!!
Anyways, I'll find out when we tear it apart. And I'll post the findings to hopefully prevent the same from happening again.
Of course I am using a different machine shop and a different mechanic. One who doesn't show up with a 12 pak!!
However, I told the rebuilder about how the bearing I changed all seemed to have worn to copper on the outside edge. He said that on some hot rods the machine shop will do a 'racing' grind on the crank, and actually grind the crank more on the outside edges. Of course he explained why, but I can't remember why.
He also said that if the shop did that, and then normal bearings were used in the rebuild, that would explain why it failed. Copper after 700 miles!!
Anyways, I'll find out when we tear it apart. And I'll post the findings to hopefully prevent the same from happening again.
Of course I am using a different machine shop and a different mechanic. One who doesn't show up with a 12 pak!!
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FTE Legend
Joined: May 2008
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From: In my own world
amen to minus the 12 pk. I wish the best for you on this one. are you going to use the same head?
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,165
Likes: 375
From: Near Los Angeles
Yes, I'll be using the same head. I have about the same $ into the head as I do the block--over $1,000, so I do want to use that head, with the p&p job and the over-size valves. I just got to have it!!
Since there is not a possibility that the head could be causing the problem, I'll use it.
Do you know what feels like a knife stabbing into you? Having a new engine and looking at the oil psi gauge and reading 4 psi. (That is coming off the freeway.) I'm just amazed the lifters are not clattering at that low pressure. I know an idiot light triggers at about 6psi. Believe me, it is torture.
Since there is not a possibility that the head could be causing the problem, I'll use it.
Do you know what feels like a knife stabbing into you? Having a new engine and looking at the oil psi gauge and reading 4 psi. (That is coming off the freeway.) I'm just amazed the lifters are not clattering at that low pressure. I know an idiot light triggers at about 6psi. Believe me, it is torture.
Moderator
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 6,094
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From: Southern California
You can send the cam in to Isky for a re-grind also. I can vouch for Precision Crankshaft Grinding Service (Los Angeles) who re-surfaced/ground my Mustang cam, but I typically stick with Isky.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
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Likes: 375
From: Near Los Angeles
Isky is good high quality stuff. Their office hasn't changed in 30 years. I've been using their products for that long. But now I don't have the time to remove one engine, pull parts (except the head) and use them to rebuild the new engine. The rebuilder gets parts wholesale, and can only get Comp Cams, so this time around I'll have to go with them.
I'm dying to know what went wrong with the engine.
Cargo Master
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,095
Likes: 2
From: Wahpeton ND
Out of curriosity why not just resue the cam. The low oil pressure I hunderstand causes premature wear. However if there is no galling on the lobe surface I would just run it with new lifters.
The main bearings wearing like that is most likely do to the insuficent oil film. Unless one were to mic the journal one can never know weather or not the POS ground a taper in it.
Have you simply pulled your oil pan off and seen if you have a disconected oil pickup? A lot of 300 an 240 engines just had the pickup fall out being that they are quite long. The remmedy is to place a tack weld or two on her and she is good as gold. Also Did you run a brush down the oil galleys prior to assembly? Alot of times tanking a block will pool 30 years of sludge in the main galley and bam you have a clog.
It sucks that you lost an engine but there is most likely a reason for this. Start with the POS machnist who drinks at work.
The main bearings wearing like that is most likely do to the insuficent oil film. Unless one were to mic the journal one can never know weather or not the POS ground a taper in it.
Have you simply pulled your oil pan off and seen if you have a disconected oil pickup? A lot of 300 an 240 engines just had the pickup fall out being that they are quite long. The remmedy is to place a tack weld or two on her and she is good as gold. Also Did you run a brush down the oil galleys prior to assembly? Alot of times tanking a block will pool 30 years of sludge in the main galley and bam you have a clog.
It sucks that you lost an engine but there is most likely a reason for this. Start with the POS machnist who drinks at work.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,165
Likes: 375
From: Near Los Angeles
[quote=flipklos;8112109]Out of curriosity why not just resue the cam. The low oil pressure I hunderstand causes premature wear. However if there is no galling on the lobe surface I would just run it with new lifters.
The main bearings wearing like that is most likely do to the insuficent oil film. Unless one were to mic the journal one can never know weather or not the POS ground a taper in it.
Have you simply pulled your oil pan off and seen if you have a disconected oil pickup? A lot of 300 an 240 engines just had the pickup fall out being that they are quite long. The remmedy is to place a tack weld or two on her and she is good as gold. Also Did you run a brush down the oil galleys prior to assembly? Alot of times tanking a block will pool 30 years of sludge in the main galley and bam you have a clog.
It sucks that you lost an engine but there is most likely a reason for this. Start with the POS machnist who drinks at work.[/quote
Yep, had the pan off twice. The second time I changed the rod and mains. After 700 miles I was showing copper...like the originals I removed with untold miles on them. The striations on the bearings told me that grit had gotten into the engine. But also, the bearings were showing copper on the outside edges. I don't know if the block was trash from the bone yard, if the machinist made a mistake, or because of the one misaligned cam journal and the 'sanding' of that bearing that the engine just vibrated itself to sinking oil pressure.
Anyway, I'd love to reuse the cam, but because of time constraint, I can't. I'll have 1 and a half days to yank one engine and install the second--complete.
<a href="http://s659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/?action=view¤t=P1010261.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/P1010261.jpg" border="0" alt="mains"></a>
<a href="http://s659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/?action=view¤t=P1010264.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/P1010264.jpg" border="0" alt="rod bearing showing copper"></a>
The main bearings wearing like that is most likely do to the insuficent oil film. Unless one were to mic the journal one can never know weather or not the POS ground a taper in it.
Have you simply pulled your oil pan off and seen if you have a disconected oil pickup? A lot of 300 an 240 engines just had the pickup fall out being that they are quite long. The remmedy is to place a tack weld or two on her and she is good as gold. Also Did you run a brush down the oil galleys prior to assembly? Alot of times tanking a block will pool 30 years of sludge in the main galley and bam you have a clog.
It sucks that you lost an engine but there is most likely a reason for this. Start with the POS machnist who drinks at work.[/quote
Yep, had the pan off twice. The second time I changed the rod and mains. After 700 miles I was showing copper...like the originals I removed with untold miles on them. The striations on the bearings told me that grit had gotten into the engine. But also, the bearings were showing copper on the outside edges. I don't know if the block was trash from the bone yard, if the machinist made a mistake, or because of the one misaligned cam journal and the 'sanding' of that bearing that the engine just vibrated itself to sinking oil pressure.
Anyway, I'd love to reuse the cam, but because of time constraint, I can't. I'll have 1 and a half days to yank one engine and install the second--complete.
<a href="http://s659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/?action=view¤t=P1010261.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/P1010261.jpg" border="0" alt="mains"></a>
<a href="http://s659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/?action=view¤t=P1010264.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/P1010264.jpg" border="0" alt="rod bearing showing copper"></a>
Cargo Master
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,095
Likes: 2
From: Wahpeton ND
That looks to me like a realy bad case of insufficent oil pressure/volume. I would tell that machinist you want some $$$$ back or your fist is going to kiss his nose. They guys around here fix their mistakes for free.
I got a comp 252 in my otherwise stock engine and love it. Great torque for towing and a good level of vaccum for a -35 degree day.
I got a comp 252 in my otherwise stock engine and love it. Great torque for towing and a good level of vaccum for a -35 degree day.