anyone ever experience that?

i had all the machine work done at a (supposedly)competent machine shop. they built the long block.

as i was putting the timing cover on, i noticed it was offset in the seal. when i slid the crank sleeve into place, it was only touching the seal on about 3/4 of it.

i then loosened the cover bolts, and pushed it over as far as it would go. i could just get the seal to TOUCH at that point. i would NOT trust it to seal.

i called the shop, and asked if there was any way the crank got slightly offset ground, and was told no, it wasnt possible. there was NO way that could have happened.

they offered to give me another cover(different casting number) so i bought yet another seal, and tried it. NO change.

i thought maybe the snout of the cank was bent, so i turned it 180* and tried again, NO change.

i do have a solution. i'll use a dremel, and oblong the mount holes, so i can adjust it over until its centered, but...thats bull**** having to do that.




anyone ever heard of such a thing? or can explain what/why it happened?

 

Ford made a tool to help with the centering. But it's easy without. Put the cover on, slide in the crank spacer, and while holding the cover centered, snug up all the cover bolts.

Since you bolted up the cover first, you may have a "dent" in the seal now. It will relax and come back. Re-center after waiting overnight with spacer "out". Or put in a new seal and start over.

A sleeve is available for worn crank spacers. You may need one if you think a leak is inevitable. The sleeve is mostly for spacers previously grooved (worn) by the seal.



By the way, you didn't have the block line-honed, or line-bored, did you? That can relocate the crank outside the movement of the cover for centering, although it's more of a line boring problem, not a line-honing issue.

 

Sounds like you may have put the pan on first- it should center itself if you install the cover first, then the pan. Set the cover on, insert the sleeve, and the seal will self-center- bolt down the cover, then install the pan. I'm doing a stroker 428CJ right now that I will probably have to trim the cover on, as I installed a main girdle which extends to the front of the cover- and in installing the girdle, we took a light cut on the pan rails to true it, which moves the girdle & pan up

 

Cover first then pan as stated. Also the seal and gasket should have come with a cover sleeve to cover the grooves cut into the spacer and a red glue stuff to lock it down.

 

i would be able to get it centered..if there was enough adjustment.

i only slid it in long enough to check that it wasnt going to work.


im not sure, id doubt it, but i would have to ask to know for sure.

cover was installed first, in fact it was the very first thing i did.

the cover was on, and thats when i noticed it was offset, i could SEE it. so i removed it and started over. i cant push the cover far enough to the side to get it centered, it just wont go.

i really think the crank, or block, whichever, was set-up wrong when it was machined.
i mean it was far enough to notice at a glance.

 

It sure sounds abnormal. All I can think is the crank line-bored improperly or possibly standard bearings put in with a crank undersized.

Where is the gap? At the top of the crank?

Is there any up/ down or side to side movement of the crank if you try to move it?

 

no movement of the crank that i cant tell.
the gap is on the side, the drivers side.

i plan on calling a few other engine builders today, and see what they have to say.

im far from pleased about ths.

 

now don't get mad or take offense, but I have to ask.....you didnt' try to install the front cover with the fuel pump already bolted on, did you?

I guess not.....you did say the bolt holes and cover holes wouldn't line up.

Well, something is definately wrong. I wouldn't take a Dremel to it until you find out "why" this is happening. If it is indeed because of block machining gone very, very wrong, then perhaps you'll have no choice other than to unhappily Dremel away, or start over with a new block

 

At this point, I'd bring it back to the machine shop and say "fix that". There's no way that should happen.

If the crank was offset ground somehow, when you rotated the crank 180 degrees, it would be offset to the passenger-side.

The only thing I can think of is that the line-bore is not right. And it's not a good thing to leave it that way, it'll screw with the thrust line of the pistons, timing advance, compression, you name it.

Aren't there lineup pins for the timing cover?

 

nope, just the cover by itself.
correct, if the crank centers, the cover bolts wont go in.

yeh, theres no change when the crank is rotated.

IF it was machined incorrectly PREVIOUSLY, is this something they would have caught when working on it?


i dont believe it was line bored this time(altho, ive yet to ask) its doubtful, as i dont see it listed on my receipt.

and no, no alignment pins on the cover.

if it was done prior to this work....would that leave ME holding the bag?

man, this friggin sucks...

 

Is your cover cast aluminum? I heard some of the very old ones were stamped steel and would never fit right again, once removed.

EDIT: Of course after I post this, I re-read where the Machine Shop gave you another cover to try and mentioned "casting number"

Does the machine shop have another block that you could make measurements on? Maybe from the outside edge (corner) of each block deck to the outer edge of the 1/2 round hole where the front top bearing goes? If you can make this measurement, maybe one of us can get you measurements from spare blocks we might have kicking around....maybe even me.

 

OK...went and made some measurements on a spare 428 block I have.

From front crank opening, at parting line, measured as if no bearings were installed to outer edge of block (measurement made parallel to ground):

Passenger Side: 3.354"

Driver's Side: 4.831"

Now, as the outside of the block isn't a machined surface, these measurements are only a guide,

But here's some interesting ones. Basically width of front main bearing cap legs....made at cut-out in block, at centerline of where crank should go:

Passenger side: 1.058"

Driver's Side: 1.015"

Interesting how the legs are different widths by 0.033"

I don't suppose the front main bearing cap was put on facing backward when it is supposed to be on facing forward....i.e. 180DEg out. That might shift the crank one way or the other. Probably bind it up too unless all main bearing caps were put on reversed...Not sure.

Anyway, you can go measure and see what you get.

 

P) 1.0550

D) 1.0220




all the caps have the arrow facing forward(toward the waterpump), and in the correct location, 1-4.




mine were very close to that aswell.
D) 4.857
P) 3.555

 

I was going to ramble on about a marine reverse-rotation block, but I think the difference in the centerlines is the pistons get reversed so the thrust side is on the other side.

This is WEIRD.

 

Seems to look like the cover as the measurements look good. Could the seal ID be too big? I guess not as you can get the gap to dissapear, just not with the holes lined up.

Can we see some pics?