I am in the process of building a stroked 302 to 347. There are somethings I would like to use, like a cobra intake. But the listing for these, and other intakes, say the work for 1986-1993. What happened in 1986 to make a 1985 different?

The big reason I ask is I have two sets of 302 heads, one of the a 58 cc set from the late seventies, that I would like to use. But am I going to have problem with a cobra intake? And if so why. I do have access to a milling machine and might be able to fix it, if possible.

 

Nothing happened in '86 to make an EFI intake incompatable with earlier heads, the basic dimensions, port and bolt locations and sizes never changed so pretty much everything is interchangable. BTW.. if you have 58cc 302 heads they are not from the late 70's.. late 60's to early 70's maybe, but late 70's was the smog era and everything had oversized combustion chambers. The casting number will tell you what era they are from.

 

Thank for you response. Where do I find this information about the heads from the casting numbers? Everything I have on hand does not cover the seventies. I'm an old guy and my books are old.

If noting changed I wonder why they say that the cobra manifold fits on 1986-1992? Here is a link:
http://www.jegs.com/p/Ford-Racing/Fo...50440/10002/-1
I would like to use this manifold because it has narrow runners that keeps the air speed high.

I know it's not a truck but I am treating it as a truck. I have a 1985 Lincoln Town Car with a Speed Density 302. I am in the process of getting my ducks in a row to put a bored and stroked 347 in it. ( I had cancer a couple of years ago and for therapy I rebuilt the suspension. I would wake up and feel like crap. I would then ask myself "Well you can lie in bed and feel like crap or you can getup and work on the car and feel like crap. So I would get up and work on the car. It now has a completely new suspension both front and rear.) For a camshaft I have a comp cams, part # cl35-235-3, 351 camshaft and lifters. This is a 4x4 cam for stump pulling torque (I'm sure you know that a 351 cam will fit in a 302). I also have a mass air setup and will make my own wiring harness to get the proper firing order. What I need at this point is some info about blocks and heads. I have this seventies era block that has a two piece rear main. The block that is in the Lincoln has a serpentine belt system and a one piece rear main. Will I be able to use the serpentine belt system on the older block? In other words will the old block have all the same threaded bosses that the 85 block has? It would be a show stopper if it didn't. Well maybe not a show stopper but I would have to use the eighties block and not the one I already have on the stand.

Because I have the seventies block on a stand already I would like to bore and stroke it. Get it ready to run and just pull the 85 motor and drop in the stroked motor on the same day. I have to work outside and I live in Montana. The weather here is unpredictable. It can be a great day one day and you have thunderstorms for a few days after. I don't want to get it apart and have it thundering and lightning while I'm putting it back together ( getting hit by lightning can ruin your hole day. I'm not kidding it's like that here. I was in a junk yard a couple of weeks ago and lightning started hitting the cars near where I was working. It's like being shot at by God. ) So will a seventies block fit in an eighties hole? And will the serpentine system work on it? And just so I am clear the eighties block had a reverse rotation water pump, is that correct?

I know this is a big rambling question post but I have been looking on line for awhile to find these answers and the information is not readily available. I do really appreciate your help.

Joe

If I get all these questions answered in the positive I am ready to rock on this thing.

 

OK- As for the casting numbers, the block's should be right above the starter and on the undersides of the heads. Just post them up here and any number of people will decode them.
I have no idea why that intake is listed that way. As Paul said dimensionally they are all the same, so it must be electrical?
The blocks are all the same. I'm not sure whether you have a reverse rotation pump or not, with a serpentine you probably do. The water pumps bolt on the timing chain covers and their are several different kinds. But the timing chain covers all bolt up to the blocks the same way. You'll just need to use your old cover and pump or ones identical to them (a reverse rotation pump is noticeably different visually than a standard).
The block will drop right in and everything should bolt right up.
The only thing I'm not sure about is the holes on the front of the heads. I think they are the same, but a quick visual would verify that (for the brackets and such).
Well I probably should add that there were some differences in the earlier years, so we need the casting numbers to make sure what year we are talking about and that the info is correct.

 

Thanks I will post the casting numbers probably tomorrow. The wife and kids are going to a Ho-Down but I have to much work to do so I will be staying home. I hate it when that happens. I love square dance and clogging. We got some really good players up here. Last year it was great so I'm sure this year will be also. One of the local families has a ranch and they put a hard wood floor in the barn loft. It's a great place to dance and listen to good home grown country and blue grass music. God it's hasn't happened yet and I'm already upset I'm not going. Maybe I'll change my mind and post them on Sunday, we'll see.

 

Hi All

Here are the casting numbers for the older block.

On the head reading from left to right where the push rod holes are there is on the far left the ford logo. Next is a CP in a circle formation. Then we have a large 78. Then in something that looks like it was a tag the was crewed onto the mold is 7M16. And last there is something that I have no idea what it means. It's in the form of a circle, if you understand bullets it looks like a headstamp. At the twelve, five and seven o'clock position there are eights. At the two and ten position there are straight lines. Now I am just guessing what is the twelve o'clock position but this should give a good idea of what is there.

On the block some of the numbers can't be read from flashing during casting. But here is what I can sort of make out:
It's 08VE-6( or maybe an 8 )015-A8??
above that is the same thing that is on the head; 7M16 and a large 78.

Now I took the 78 to mean year of production but I could be totally off. What I am mainly interested in is the cc of the heads. I could check it myself but it would be a real pain. I would have to make some sort of stand for the head, I don't have those nice gizmos that go into a bolt way and have the proper angle to the to level the head. And I would have to workup some sort of device to meter the amount of liquid that was going into the chamber. It would take half a day or more to just make all the stuff I need to check the chamber size.

I am also looking at getting another set of heads if these have chambers that are to large. Here is a link to what I am thinking about:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/COMPL...Q5fAccessories

These aluminum heads look pretty good with 60cc chambers and small runners to keep air speed high. This is a lot of money but for two complete heads ready to bolt on it's really not that bad, maybe if I keep telling myself that I will believe it. But if the chamber size of the heads I have are big I might just go for these. I need to have the heads I have machined for guide plates and I need new springs. That is all included with the aluminum heads so that would drop a couple of hundred off the price. I think I just talked myself into them. But I will wait to see what people say the chamber size is on the heads I have.

And I want to say thank you very much for the help I am getting. I hope in the future I will be able to recipricate.

Joe

 

It's not an O8VE, it's either C or D. The D's have a tendency to look like O's. A C8 would be 68 and a D8 would be 78. The V stands for Lincoln and the E is the parts group in ( in this case Engine). The 6015 is the part number and the A8 is means it was modified in production.
As far as the heads go, all that information is useless to me. It may be that they are '78's, and maybe someone else can tell you, but I need the codes that are the same as the above to be sure and they are on the underside of the heads.
If they are '78 heads, they would have around 69cc's, and aren't very good at all.

 

Head casting number is on the head gasket side of the heads near the intake ports.. you can see the E7TE and E5AE sequences on these heads, that's what you are looking for.

 

The casting number tells what year the casting was made.. but the same casting was of often used for several years so it doesn't give you a precise year of production. But that doesn't really matter because all the vital specs are available for the castig numbers.. valve sizes, chamber volume, and port flow capacity from aftermarket sources.

And now that you bring it up and I strongly suggest you get aftermarket heads for this motor. Most of the stock castings are a bit small for a 302 and and they're all WAY to small for a 347/351.. that is if you want anything close to appropriate TQ and HP from the motor. I'm not a drag race guy either I'm a truck guy that likes torquey motors so your goals will line up with mine pretty good I think. You made a good choice on the cam and those Pro Comp heads do look the part. A quick scan of the web turned up some flow data on them.. though it is directly from Procomp and connot be individually verified.


Here's how they compare to other popular SBF heads. None of the older stock heads are listed and the only ones worth mentioning are the C9OE/D0OE 351 heads, but they are still only on par with the late model GT40 heads. These Procomps look to be comparable to the Edelbrock Performer(Edelbrock 1.90" below), and that is right on target for a torquey power output. For comparison sake the Dart heads I have for my 351 build flow abut 250/160cfm @ 0.500" lift.. and dyno sims put TQ output at over 400 ft/lbs with my cam.

 

I guess that settles it. I will go with the aluminum heads and not worry about the stock ones. Maybe I can sell them on Ebay. Don't you just love it.

So I will order all this stuff to day and hopefully have it by the end of the week. So maybe in a month I will be tooling down the road. I'll post some pics when I'm done.

Thank again for all your help. You put the finishing touches on this for me.

Joseph

 

I have seen several writeups on the E6** heads, and they are unique for that year. That head is supposed to be the same as the "vanilla" heads on all later 302's for passenger car use. I got into checking about them because I was given an old 86 Lincoln Mark. 86 was the first year of the roller cam blocks except for some 85 HO models. The pistons were flat-tops and the valves were supposed to be seated higher in the heads for clearance plus the ports were smaller an a different design. As I recall, 86 heads will cause a compression drop on other 302's.

The 85 truck heads (E5TE) were supposedly the same as the E7 HO mustang heads and "POWERHEADS" would accept them as cores for their CNC ported E7 heads, but would not accept the E5AE heads, which were considered non performance "Plain jane" heads.

Its been a while, so I may be a little off on some things, but that is the basics. I dont know about accessory fitment between the years.

I will freely give my set of E6 heads to anyone who wants them------provided I can still find them----somewhere out back in the tall grass .

Also, note the AIC (Area Under Curve) figures, in the provided charts, for the GT40P heads compared to the regular GT40's and other heads. Except for having to round up a unique exaust headers for them, they look better than the GT40's----in stock form anyway!

 

You're right. The E6AE's had 62-65cc chambers as did the E7TE's. The E5AE's had 67-70cc chambers while they all had the same size ports and valves. The size of the chambers was the reason Powerheads would not accept them.

 

Just looking at the E5 and E7 heads I have(in the pic above) you couldn't tell if the chambers were larger or not, I have not measured them but a difference of 2-4cc would not be visible to the naked eye anyway. I have measured the chambers on the E6 heads I have and they are 64cc.. roughly the same as what E7 heads are supposed to be though I have heard reports many are closer to 62cc. The valves are recessed into the chambers more on the E6 heads and the intake valve is shrowded petty badly as a result. The pic below shows the difference in the chamber shape and it's relation to the valves, both are at 1/2" lift from the seat.

 

I seem to recall that the E6s have slightly smaller ports also. They kinda reminded me of the "P" heads except for the heart shaped combustion chambers and the spark plug angle.

The 86 HO mustang turned as good a time as some later stangs in stock form, but could not be improved upon by porting very much. I believe I got all this info from a Ford Mustang publication-----guess I may look under some stuff as see if I can find it. It looked to me like the intake shrouding could be remedied easily enough, but maybe the water jackets prevent the needed work on the port/bowl areas. Also that heart shape in the chamber is not very deep and could be made much smaller or removed, but may not be worth all the effort. I have a new, in the box, set of "P"'s and it is hard to beat that price and flow fully equipted and ready to install. I was going to put them on my 93 5.8 but never got the MS headers that are supposed to fit them.

 

I have been doing some research on line. One place I found most helpful was Keith Blacks Pistons. Here is a link to the articles page:
http://kb-silvolite.com/article.php

They talk about quench and it's relation ship to compression ratio. The fact that when an engine has the piston reach TDC the area that is flat, not the chamber where the valves are, plays a big roll in how the chamber cools and how the flame travels. I bet thats why Ford made the E5TE heads with more quench area. So after reading the stuff I suspect that, with proper tuning, the E6SE heads would have a slight advantage over the E5TE heads. Now this is just theory and there are many factors that come into play, like you can't get enough mixture into the E6SE heads because of the valves are covered so much, but reading the articles in the KB site is worth it for the info.

You guys might be hep to all this already but I haven't built a rod in about thirty years. I guess I'm going through my second childhood, or mid life crisis. Or something. Putting a bored and stroke performance motor in a Town Car is insane. But it sure sounds like fun to me.

At the KB site they show a device they have to shoot oil at the bottom of the piston. They have an article about it but it's not listed in their product section. Getting the piston cooler would help a lot for high compression to prevent ping and detonation. One of the project cars I have in my back yard is an 1985 Mercedes five cylinder turbo diesel. ( I bought it to do experments with alternative fuels. Not bio diesel but running a mix of used motor oil and automatic transmission fluid. I worked out the numbers from what the oil places would charge me for the used oils and I can get the fuel cost to around 25 to 30 cents per gallon. But I have a ton of work to do on this old thing before I can start putting motor oil in it.) This diesel uses the same thing to cool the pistons. As you know diesels get hot pistons. I think adding something like that would greatly increase the life of the engine.