waiting for meltdown
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
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From: Near Los Angeles
waiting for meltdown
Hey guys--
I have a newly rebuilt hp 300. I hate to keep harping on an old subject, but my oil psi is dropping. I guess I am hoping that someone could point me in the right direction to correct the problem.
Even with the high volume oil pump, when I come off the freeway the pressure drops to 12-14 psi at idle. I have checked a couple of the bearings, mains, and one rod, and they looked good.
I tried to do everything the best possible way during the rebuild, balancing, turned crank and rods, etc. All the oil passages were brushed out. I can only assume there is an internal crack.
I have a newly rebuilt hp 300. I hate to keep harping on an old subject, but my oil psi is dropping. I guess I am hoping that someone could point me in the right direction to correct the problem.
Even with the high volume oil pump, when I come off the freeway the pressure drops to 12-14 psi at idle. I have checked a couple of the bearings, mains, and one rod, and they looked good.
I tried to do everything the best possible way during the rebuild, balancing, turned crank and rods, etc. All the oil passages were brushed out. I can only assume there is an internal crack.
Elder User
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 563
Likes: 0
From: DeKalb, Ill.
What happened with the fuel pump issue? Are you still getting gas in your oil?
The last time I saw that you posted, I thought you were on to the problem. No?
If I remember correctly, you found that your main bearings were already out of tolerance.
Are you running the high volume pump to offset the wide bearing clearance?
I hate to suggest removing the oil pan again, but I would have replaced
the bearings before replacing the pump (I don't know if you did replace the bearings).
Keep posting your progress. I'll try to offer any tidbits I can think of to help you out.
I haven't been participating much here, only reading along and learning.
Judging by the title of this thread, it sounds like it's time for my mediocre
experience/knowledge to chime in.
Murph.
The last time I saw that you posted, I thought you were on to the problem. No?
If I remember correctly, you found that your main bearings were already out of tolerance.
Are you running the high volume pump to offset the wide bearing clearance?
I hate to suggest removing the oil pan again, but I would have replaced
the bearings before replacing the pump (I don't know if you did replace the bearings).
Keep posting your progress. I'll try to offer any tidbits I can think of to help you out.
I haven't been participating much here, only reading along and learning.
Judging by the title of this thread, it sounds like it's time for my mediocre
experience/knowledge to chime in.
Murph.
FTE Legend
Joined: May 2008
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From: In my own world
I think the valve cover needs to come off, and see if you have good pressure to the rocker arms. you know that everything is right on the bottom, now we have to determine where the problem is. I'm still stuck on the cam bearings, but want to know if the rocker arms squirt oil , not dribble it.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,182
Likes: 380
From: Near Los Angeles
I think the valve cover needs to come off, and see if you have good pressure to the rocker arms. you know that everything is right on the bottom, now we have to determine where the problem is. I'm still stuck on the cam bearings, but want to know if the rocker arms squirt oil , not dribble it.
I thought I'd be cruising along now, problem free. I've just about reached the wall. Let's see, I did not replace the bearings, but probably should have. Money and time grappled with me at that moment and convinced me not to. I checked the carb, and determined I was not leaking gas from there, and that led me to replace the fuel pump.
I thought the problem was solved when, for about 2 days, the psi stayed around 20 coming off the freeway. Then it started dropping, and now I'm at 11-14...with the High Volume oil pump. Although the bearings were past the spec. max for a new rebuild ( .0015 in the book, and mine were at or close to .002) it was well below the required maintenance level.
Well, when I was writing the above, it dawned on me that I had not smelled the oil since changing it and the fuel pump. I just assumed that that problem was solved. Now I still smell gas in the ... oil!! Any ideas? I have examined the carb, and cannot see it leaking/dripping from the boosters into the intake. Also, this is the second new fuel pump I have put on it. This one is a Carter from Napa.
Elder User
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 563
Likes: 0
From: DeKalb, Ill.
Sounds like fuel in your oil is the problem.
I don't know how this could be a problem with 2 pumps, but I wouldn't rule it out.
I can't think of another reason you would be getting fuel in your oil.
Try to find a way to have your fuel pump tested (or get another new one).
I think we're getting closer to solving your problem.
Gas in your oil seems to be the root of it, we just need to figure out
how it's getting there. Take another look and let us know what you find.
Murph.
I don't know how this could be a problem with 2 pumps, but I wouldn't rule it out.
I can't think of another reason you would be getting fuel in your oil.
Try to find a way to have your fuel pump tested (or get another new one).
I think we're getting closer to solving your problem.
Gas in your oil seems to be the root of it, we just need to figure out
how it's getting there. Take another look and let us know what you find.
Murph.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,299
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From: The Vieux Ford, Kansas
Are you saying you reused your old bearing after rebuilding your motor? If this is the case you will have pretty much the exact oil pressure you had before the rebuild. Bearing clearance is pretty much what determines your oil pressure. On past the spec, I am guessing you mean .020 or they were .002 over making them .017? Were these the rods or mains? What was the tolerance .005-.015? If so I would guess bearings.
-Johnboy
-Johnboy
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From: In my own world
how long does it take for it to fire up when it sits for a day or 2? does it fire right off, or does it crank for awhile?. I had a 66 fairlane that han a autolite on it, and the fuel bowls would leak down overnight, all that raw gas would sit in the intake, and introduce itself to the oil. never did figure out how to fix it, just bought a cheap[ back then] holley, and solved the problem.get a carb gasketfor $4, and pull the carb after sits for a spell, and see if the intake is wet inside.once this problem is solved, you do need to roll in a new set of bearings. good thing you diddn't even though you should have. $100 is hard to give up when you have spent what you have already
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
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From: Near Los Angeles
Are you saying you reused your old bearing after rebuilding your motor? If this is the case you will have pretty much the exact oil pressure you had before the rebuild. Bearing clearance is pretty much what determines your oil pressure. On past the spec, I am guessing you mean .020 or they were .002 over making them .017? Were these the rods or mains? What was the tolerance .005-.015? If so I would guess bearings.
-Johnboy
-Johnboy
Is there ANYONE? who actually rebuilds an engine with the old bearings? Even a cheap rebuild of honing the cylinders with new rings, still replaces the bearings. Otherwise, why break it down?
Everything is new with my engine. The problem seems to be gas getting in and thinning the oil. And of course now the bearings are a bit out of tolerance. The book says .008--.0015. The two mains I checked at at, or close to .002.
I am about to replace the carb, after checking the float level. If that is not the problem, I'll swap out the fuel pump too. When I have solved the gas/oil problem, I'll drop the pan again and change the bearings.
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Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,182
Likes: 380
From: Near Los Angeles
how long does it take for it to fire up when it sits for a day or 2? does it fire right off, or does it crank for awhile?. I had a 66 fairlane that han a autolite on it, and the fuel bowls would leak down overnight, all that raw gas would sit in the intake, and introduce itself to the oil. never did figure out how to fix it, just bought a cheap[ back then] holley, and solved the problem.get a carb gasketfor $4, and pull the carb after sits for a spell, and see if the intake is wet inside.once this problem is solved, you do need to roll in a new set of bearings. good thing you diddn't even though you should have. $100 is hard to give up when you have spent what you have already
Thanks. Yes, the Carb is the prime suspect. Although I can't see any fuel leaking from the boosters or anywhere else, today I am going to open it up and check the float level. This weekend I am swapping it out with an Edelbrock 500, and will spend the weekend dialing it in with kit.
I have changed the fuel pump too. Both were new. The most recent, a Carter from Napa, looked moldy inside. But I was in a bind and installed it. I'm now thinking that it had been sitting on the shelf for who knows how long. I would really like to avoid this happening again, so I'm pondering switching to an electric pump.
Once the problem is solved, I'll switch out the bearings.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,299
Likes: 2
From: The Vieux Ford, Kansas
I didn't think there was any one who did but you said "I did not replace the bearings, but probably should have. Money and time grappled with me at that moment and convinced me not to."
-Johnboy
-Johnboy
FTE Legend
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From: In my own world
been pondering this all day. I remember a while back you could not get it to idle down. before you tear into it, take off the air cleaner, and start it. look down at the throttle plates, and see if they are dry, or wet while at idle. they should be dry. inside the fuel bowl, there are casting areas that are usually capped with lead. the newer gas tends to eat at the lead, and allows the gas to come out of the fuel bowl, and into the bores.even if float level is correct, and these holes are open, even the slightest amount, you will be really rich, and it will never idle down. I have a feeling this is your problem, you should be getting better fuel mileage than you are. my 82, even with the 600 holley was giveing me an average of 16 mpg. truck is lighter than yours, but you should still be close to that number. if the bearings aren't showing brass yet, I think you will be ok for a while once you get the fuel problem fixed, just use 15w 40 shell rotella.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
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From: Near Los Angeles
Progress report:
Today I changed the oil and filter again. I got rid of the gas tainted oil. I also took the carb apart. At idle I can not see fuel leaking into the venturi. The only thing I found was how low the float level was set. In the book I only the settings for a 289 to go by, and that called for 1/2" on the primaries, and 5/8" on the secondaries. But Pony had the primaries set at 7/8", and the secondaries were set so low that there was only about 3/8 of an inch feul in the bowl--that would mean they were set at 34/32"!
So I set the p's at 1/2, and the secondaries at 5/8", and took it for a spin. Whow. Noticable difference. My engine performed like it was saying, ''oh yeah, I like that." The next setting in the book is for a 351, but that would be over the top. I will look up the setting for the hp 289, and set it there, and see what the results are.
Dusty, thanks for trying to help. Tomorrow I will pull one of my parts 4100's from my shelf, and see if there are any of the casting plugs inside the float bowl area. I don't think so. Anyway, I am swapping it out for an Edelbrock 500 tomorrow, Friday. I am tired of the high idle, the binding linkage, and the sticking throttle. I'm sure that carb technology has improved leaps and bounds since the 60's, and that with the new carb my milage will increase too...hopefully.
Also, with my new fuel pump now on, I'll see how the oil smells tomorrow, and let everyone know.
Today I changed the oil and filter again. I got rid of the gas tainted oil. I also took the carb apart. At idle I can not see fuel leaking into the venturi. The only thing I found was how low the float level was set. In the book I only the settings for a 289 to go by, and that called for 1/2" on the primaries, and 5/8" on the secondaries. But Pony had the primaries set at 7/8", and the secondaries were set so low that there was only about 3/8 of an inch feul in the bowl--that would mean they were set at 34/32"!
So I set the p's at 1/2, and the secondaries at 5/8", and took it for a spin. Whow. Noticable difference. My engine performed like it was saying, ''oh yeah, I like that." The next setting in the book is for a 351, but that would be over the top. I will look up the setting for the hp 289, and set it there, and see what the results are.
Dusty, thanks for trying to help. Tomorrow I will pull one of my parts 4100's from my shelf, and see if there are any of the casting plugs inside the float bowl area. I don't think so. Anyway, I am swapping it out for an Edelbrock 500 tomorrow, Friday. I am tired of the high idle, the binding linkage, and the sticking throttle. I'm sure that carb technology has improved leaps and bounds since the 60's, and that with the new carb my milage will increase too...hopefully.
Also, with my new fuel pump now on, I'll see how the oil smells tomorrow, and let everyone know.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,182
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From: Near Los Angeles
I'm buying the calibration kit with it, and have set the weekend aside to get it dialed in. I really hope the mpg goes up. I decided to stick with the offy dp I have. The configuration of the edel. will allow me to adjust my mix screws without having to lay across the engine, wearing gloves, and still come out with burn lumps. Imagine that.
Also, I really hope there is no more fuel in the oil !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!
Also, I really hope there is no more fuel in the oil !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!
FTE Legend
Joined: May 2008
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From: In my own world
I think your going to be ok. don't worry about the fuel pump. I've used the same one on 4 different motors. eventually the check valve gives up, and it drains back to the tank. I have only ever had 1 where the diaphram contaminated the oil, and that was a 2 stage that drove the windshield wipers on a caddy