waiting for meltdown
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,182
Likes: 380
From: Near Los Angeles
Hey guys--
I didn't know what else to do after checking the carb for leaks and coming up dry, and then changing the fuel pump. Even though I had changed the oil I could still smell gas on the dip stick. The oil level was not going up, so I thought the odor might be residual. However, I wanted to be safe rather than sorry. I drove 30 miles on the freeway, and when I got off the freeway and pulled to a light, I had 10 psi of oil pressure. And that was with 15/40 AND a high volume pump. That freaked me out.
I don't know how the engine could keep losing pressure unless gas was still getting in the oil, so I changed the carb to a new Edelbrock 500. I have zero leaks. I have zero clatter in the lifters. I have checked the bearings, and although they are a bit out of spec., it should not be continuing to loose pressure.
The only thing I can do now, short of building a new short block, or just waiting for it to spin a bearing, it to swap out the mains and rod bearings from below.
My explanation is this: During the initial breakin, and the following two day of local driving, gas was leaking into the engine through either the carb or pump, and the bearings did not get proper lubrication. That may have gone on for about two weeks before I caught it.
Anyway, that is where I now stand. It would just be too easy if the front cross member unbolted!!
Thanks to all who have tried to help. The only thing I hope at this point is that it is not the cam causing the problems. That, most likely, would mean pulling the engine.
I didn't know what else to do after checking the carb for leaks and coming up dry, and then changing the fuel pump. Even though I had changed the oil I could still smell gas on the dip stick. The oil level was not going up, so I thought the odor might be residual. However, I wanted to be safe rather than sorry. I drove 30 miles on the freeway, and when I got off the freeway and pulled to a light, I had 10 psi of oil pressure. And that was with 15/40 AND a high volume pump. That freaked me out.
I don't know how the engine could keep losing pressure unless gas was still getting in the oil, so I changed the carb to a new Edelbrock 500. I have zero leaks. I have zero clatter in the lifters. I have checked the bearings, and although they are a bit out of spec., it should not be continuing to loose pressure.
The only thing I can do now, short of building a new short block, or just waiting for it to spin a bearing, it to swap out the mains and rod bearings from below.
My explanation is this: During the initial breakin, and the following two day of local driving, gas was leaking into the engine through either the carb or pump, and the bearings did not get proper lubrication. That may have gone on for about two weeks before I caught it.
Anyway, that is where I now stand. It would just be too easy if the front cross member unbolted!!
Thanks to all who have tried to help. The only thing I hope at this point is that it is not the cam causing the problems. That, most likely, would mean pulling the engine.
FTE Legend
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 56,542
Likes: 0
From: In my own world
I hope it don't go that far, but the cam can come out without pulling the engine. remove grill, radiator etc. loosen both motor mounts, and remove the right one. raise the motor as far as the trans against the firewall, then push the whole works over to the passenger fender. you can now sneak the cam out, but boy it's a pia.I think if you roll in some new bearings, and lube them good, you will be fine.I would add some stp for now, and change the oil again in about 200 miles, you know that no matter how long it drains, there is still left over gas and oil mix in there.
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,182
Likes: 380
From: Near Los Angeles
There is something else which I forgot to mention: The engine seems to run hot. I know the sending unit is at the rear of the block, so this may be normal for this engine, I don't know. During hot city driving, sitting in traffic, etc., it will typically get up over 205 degrees. I rarely saw that with my 390, but the sending unit was on the intake.
As I said, that may be normal for this engine, but I should mention that I have a huge dessert cooler radiator out of my 390, and have dual cooling fans on it.
Does that temp sound normal to everyone.
As I said, that may be normal for this engine, but I should mention that I have a huge dessert cooler radiator out of my 390, and have dual cooling fans on it.
Does that temp sound normal to everyone.
New User
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
both of my 300's have 195 thermostats and run close to 200 so 205 isnt all that hot.my 89 after the complete rebuild ran close to 210 for the fisrt few days till everything broke in and loosened up. as for the low oil pressure at idle issue im no expert on gas engine but being heavy duty mechanic a high volume pump vrs reg oil pump just increases the volume not the actual pressure the difference in pressure probaly wouldnt be that noticable. but the fact you have increased the hp from stock to that off a 390 im wondering if that is putting the oil under great loads stress and causing it to get warmer than usual. most of my buddies with modified engines run larger oil pans to hold more oil plus add a oil cooler. most diesels run a water cooled oil cooling system to keep the oil temp within reason. just a thought.
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,182
Likes: 380
From: Near Los Angeles
The previous poster said something that rang true. He mentioned that with modified engines you usually need a larger oil pan, and an oil cooler. That reminded me of the tech articles I had read on Classic Inlines.com. Above a certain hp, all the engines got modified, larger pans with the cooling fins out the side. The engine is producing about 100 hp more than factory (that may be stretching it a bit), so the oil is taking a lot of heat and abuse. That makes sense to me.
Anyway, I am soon going to be swapping out the mains and rod bearings. I bought Clevite 77's today. I am also looking around for a nice oil cooler.
No more gas in the oil, and that is a very good thing!
Anyway, I am soon going to be swapping out the mains and rod bearings. I bought Clevite 77's today. I am also looking around for a nice oil cooler.
No more gas in the oil, and that is a very good thing!
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 18,488
Likes: 22
From: The Big, Oregon
There is nothing wrong with your oil pressure. Remember, the 300-6 takes the oil pressure AFTER the filter, so your pressure will drop faster than the 390 as the filter gets contaminated.
I am assuming you changed the filter each time as well?
Also, if you use a gas with more than 5% ethanol, expect to replace the fuel pump annually, more often if you get an old pump.
I am assuming you changed the filter each time as well?
Also, if you use a gas with more than 5% ethanol, expect to replace the fuel pump annually, more often if you get an old pump.
FTE Legend
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 56,542
Likes: 0
From: In my own world
The previous poster said something that rang true. He mentioned that with modified engines you usually need a larger oil pan, and an oil cooler. That reminded me of the tech articles I had read on Classic Inlines.com. Above a certain hp, all the engines got modified, larger pans with the cooling fins out the side. The engine is producing about 100 hp more than factory (that may be stretching it a bit), so the oil is taking a lot of heat and abuse. That makes sense to me.
Anyway, I am soon going to be swapping out the mains and rod bearings. I bought Clevite 77's today. I am also looking around for a nice oil cooler.
No more gas in the oil, and that is a very good thing!
Anyway, I am soon going to be swapping out the mains and rod bearings. I bought Clevite 77's today. I am also looking around for a nice oil cooler.
No more gas in the oil, and that is a very good thing!
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FTE Legend
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 56,542
Likes: 0
From: In my own world
cool. got my fingers crossed for you, I have been where you are, and it is really frustrateing, to say the least. is pony carbs going to help you out any with the cost of all your repairs?
Thread Starter
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,182
Likes: 380
From: Near Los Angeles
Pony Carbs: I spoke with Jon about the problems on the phone. He led me through the trouble shooting, but it was nothing which I could fix--vacuum leaks, timing, etc. He said to send it in and they would fix any problems without charge.
They say they pre-run every carb before it goes out. The idle was set so high on that carb, and the mixture screws were totally mixed up. I really doubt they check them. They have a great reputation, and a good website full of hype, but the bottom line is that they are dealing with carbs that are 43 years old!! If one tiny passage is warped, you'll never be able to get to run correctly. Look at how technology has changed since the sixties!!
And they are nearly double the price of a brand new Edelbrock!!
They say they pre-run every carb before it goes out. The idle was set so high on that carb, and the mixture screws were totally mixed up. I really doubt they check them. They have a great reputation, and a good website full of hype, but the bottom line is that they are dealing with carbs that are 43 years old!! If one tiny passage is warped, you'll never be able to get to run correctly. Look at how technology has changed since the sixties!!
And they are nearly double the price of a brand new Edelbrock!!
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,429
Likes: 4
From: patricia ab canada
There is nothing wrong with your oil pressure. Remember, the 300-6 takes the oil pressure AFTER the filter, so your pressure will drop faster than the 390 as the filter gets contaminated.
I am assuming you changed the filter each time as well?
Also, if you use a gas with more than 5% ethanol, expect to replace the fuel pump annually, more often if you get an old pump.
I am assuming you changed the filter each time as well?
Also, if you use a gas with more than 5% ethanol, expect to replace the fuel pump annually, more often if you get an old pump.
Thread Starter
|
Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,182
Likes: 380
From: Near Los Angeles
Hey guys--
I wanted to keep everyone up to date with what was happening. I did find the cause of the problems: I had my Clifford valve cover professionally polished, and the 'compound' must of gotten into the cover where it was hidden up under the oil baffel. Although I washed inside the cover, the baffel was not washed because it 'looked clean'. (Assumption is the mother of all screwups.) The new oil washed the compound into the case, and you've seen the photos of the bearings. It was painful, and really made me feel dum.
Anyway, we swapped out the lower end bearings, and that gave me about 14 psi at idle, which was great, and about 42 psi on the freeway. This weekend I went on a 4 hour drive, and installed an oil cooler before I left. To my surprise, my pressure dropped to 11 at idle, and 30 psi on the freeway. I was cruising at about 2400 rpm, so thought I was okay.
My question is this: Having seen the state of my bottom end bearings, I'm assuming my cam bearings are in the same state, possibly with copper showing. There is no noise yet, just some clicking of the lifters when first starting on a cold moring. Should I be concerned with dependability of the engine, knowing the cam bearings are in that state?
Could the abrasive paste have caused wear on the valve guides? And what about the piston bore?
I am toying with the idea of pulling the engine and installing a new rebuild--very painful.
Please let me know what you think.
<a href="http://s659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/?action=view¤t=P1010263.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/P1010263.jpg" border="0" alt="edge copper"></a>
I wanted to keep everyone up to date with what was happening. I did find the cause of the problems: I had my Clifford valve cover professionally polished, and the 'compound' must of gotten into the cover where it was hidden up under the oil baffel. Although I washed inside the cover, the baffel was not washed because it 'looked clean'. (Assumption is the mother of all screwups.) The new oil washed the compound into the case, and you've seen the photos of the bearings. It was painful, and really made me feel dum.
Anyway, we swapped out the lower end bearings, and that gave me about 14 psi at idle, which was great, and about 42 psi on the freeway. This weekend I went on a 4 hour drive, and installed an oil cooler before I left. To my surprise, my pressure dropped to 11 at idle, and 30 psi on the freeway. I was cruising at about 2400 rpm, so thought I was okay.
My question is this: Having seen the state of my bottom end bearings, I'm assuming my cam bearings are in the same state, possibly with copper showing. There is no noise yet, just some clicking of the lifters when first starting on a cold moring. Should I be concerned with dependability of the engine, knowing the cam bearings are in that state?
Could the abrasive paste have caused wear on the valve guides? And what about the piston bore?
I am toying with the idea of pulling the engine and installing a new rebuild--very painful.
Please let me know what you think.
<a href="http://s659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/?action=view¤t=P1010263.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu316/bobbyrogue/P1010263.jpg" border="0" alt="edge copper"></a>
Senior User
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 480
Likes: 0
From: Hudson,Michigan
The problem with abrasive is that it will imbed in soft metal(soft bearings,piston skirts ect.)But you don't really know what's going on for sure.So, the way I see it,you can either run it till something bad happens or take it down and clean and inspect everything,then build it up.Check the bores and pistons,clean the block,hot tank or if you want to save your paint, clean with hot soap and water (like with honing,the only thing that will remove grit is dish soap and water).This time double check every move,go back to the books if you have to and cover it all.This is probably the only way you will ever trust that engine.Very expensive lesson.
Tuned
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 386
Likes: 3
From: Whitmore lake Mi
Jim