How come we suck??
Elder User
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 672
Likes: 0
From: NJ
I think we shouldn't make the comparison between diesel engines and gasoline engines. In my mind, there are simply too many variables, WOT RPM, BTUs per volume of fuel, etc. Keep in mind, Diesels and gassers are meant to perform different functions. We all know HP is a function of torque, HP= (torque*RPM)/5250. So, HP has an element of time to it. Basically, I think of torque as a measure of how much work an engine ca do, and HP as a measure of how fast an engine can do a certain amount of work.
Freshman User
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Agreed with Chris comparing gas motors to diesels is apples and oranges. Apples and oranges are both round, gas motors and diesel motors are both use oil. Thats about where the similarities end. The only other thing to point out is to look at the stock torque #'s on a straight 6 gas motor compared to the torque #'s on a similar sized v8 motor.
Bottom line. the 5.9 has been around for eons. The longer anything is in existence's the more/easier ways people find to improve it.
Bottom line. the 5.9 has been around for eons. The longer anything is in existence's the more/easier ways people find to improve it.
Also, the shape of an engine had a lot to do with where it ended up. V-8s are naturally cube shaped and fit well in the engine bays of cars and trucks without wasted space. Inline engines went into tractors because they were narrow and fit down a crop row.
John Deere held out on their reliable side by side two cylinder engine format for years in gas and diesel versions but finally had to give it up beacause to go bigger would mean it wouldn't fit down a corn row.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 25,090
Likes: 1,112
From: Rio Rico, AZ.
I happen to think that the I-6 is the most efficient engine design as well.
It ends up being a boat anchor of an engine because of all the mass, but compared to all the other designs available, it's very hard to beat.
Another very good design is the I-5.
It ends up being a boat anchor of an engine because of all the mass, but compared to all the other designs available, it's very hard to beat.
Another very good design is the I-5.
Smokin
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,849
Likes: 0
Interesting thread guys. Has me captivated.
This pretty much sums it up for me. Diesels aren't engineered to be racing machines, they are built for work....
Design for function.
Design for function.
Freshman User
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Boxer engine, even firing, and low center of gravity. Racing applications.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 10,600
Likes: 3
From: Carhenge
The I-6 is perfect primary and secondary balance, and I don't think you can hit that again in any engine configuration until you get up to an I-12.
"Mifflin Clay"
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,177
Likes: 4
From: Mifflin, PA
Roger Penske says NASCAR and Indy may switch to 4-cylinder cars
Roger Penske, whose cars have won more Indy 500s than anyone else, says the day is
not far off when Indy will switch to smaller engines to keep pace with changes in the auto industry.
"We're going to see four-cylinder, turbocharged engines maybe at Indianapolis as we go forward over
the next four or five years, rather than V8s", Penske, 71, said in a Bloomberg radio interview from
the Detroit Auto Show to be broadcast tomorrow. "I think you'll see that migrate even into Nascar
because that's where we are today."
"It's definitely on the table," said Indy Racing League spokesman John Griffin. The racing
league is in talks with about five automakers and may make an announcement about new
engines by the end of the month. Some Nascar competitors used six-cylinder engines in the 1940s and 1950s.
http://blog.al.com/blogoftomorrow/20...car_and_i.html
Roger Penske, whose cars have won more Indy 500s than anyone else, says the day is
not far off when Indy will switch to smaller engines to keep pace with changes in the auto industry.
"We're going to see four-cylinder, turbocharged engines maybe at Indianapolis as we go forward over
the next four or five years, rather than V8s", Penske, 71, said in a Bloomberg radio interview from
the Detroit Auto Show to be broadcast tomorrow. "I think you'll see that migrate even into Nascar
because that's where we are today."
"It's definitely on the table," said Indy Racing League spokesman John Griffin. The racing
league is in talks with about five automakers and may make an announcement about new
engines by the end of the month. Some Nascar competitors used six-cylinder engines in the 1940s and 1950s.
http://blog.al.com/blogoftomorrow/20...car_and_i.html
Elder User
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 544
Likes: 0
From: SLC, UT
Deffinately have come along way. My buddy has a 300zx with a 4 cylinder running just shy of 1000 hp on the bottle with a large single.
Wait, what happened to this thread.... What I meant was yeah powerstroke.
Wait, what happened to this thread.... What I meant was yeah powerstroke.
Thread Starter
|
Freshman User
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
) was a boxer. That's actually the main reason I got the truck. Man I love turbos!!WOW! This thread has gotten a life of it's own! Great discussion and thanks for all of the input! I was mainly wanting to stir the pot and get some debate as to why we don't have better performance parts. I love my truck...wouldn't have bought it otherwise.
Still the oranges to apples part I think is wrong. I do understand diesels and gas are different...that's why I have to buy diesel fuel
However parts is parts as the saying goes so I'm still not sure why there aren't more parts for our trucks like forged rods, custom pistons, etc. Maybe it is a time thing...the 350 Chebby was out for a long time before the 5.0 caught on and now it's the same for the LSX motors. Hopefully we will get the same treatment. No the truck is not a racer but I do think it's a shame the Cummins guys can leave us in the dust...
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,144
Likes: 11
From: Rochdale MA
Umm, not really. My 02 Scoobie (WRX Wagon which I don't think was a racer ) was a boxer. That's actually the main reason I got the truck. Man I love turbos!!
WOW! This thread has gotten a life of it's own! Great discussion and thanks for all of the input! I was mainly wanting to stir the pot and get some debate as to why we don't have better performance parts. I love my truck...wouldn't have bought it otherwise.
Still the oranges to apples part I think is wrong. I do understand diesels and gas are different...that's why I have to buy diesel fuel However parts is parts as the saying goes so I'm still not sure why there aren't more parts for our trucks like forged rods, custom pistons, etc. Maybe it is a time thing...the 350 Chebby was out for a long time before the 5.0 caught on and now it's the same for the LSX motors. Hopefully we will get the same treatment.
No the truck is not a racer but I do think it's a shame the Cummins guys can leave us in the dust...
) was a boxer. That's actually the main reason I got the truck. Man I love turbos!!WOW! This thread has gotten a life of it's own! Great discussion and thanks for all of the input! I was mainly wanting to stir the pot and get some debate as to why we don't have better performance parts. I love my truck...wouldn't have bought it otherwise.
Still the oranges to apples part I think is wrong. I do understand diesels and gas are different...that's why I have to buy diesel fuel
However parts is parts as the saying goes so I'm still not sure why there aren't more parts for our trucks like forged rods, custom pistons, etc. Maybe it is a time thing...the 350 Chebby was out for a long time before the 5.0 caught on and now it's the same for the LSX motors. Hopefully we will get the same treatment. No the truck is not a racer but I do think it's a shame the Cummins guys can leave us in the dust...
That is what I first thought when I read the title. Thanks to all for keeping it FTE friendly.
Postmaster
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,005
Likes: 3
From: Mcafee, NJ
not to "stir the pot" even more but there are sub 9 sec civics out there with a I4... the diffrence is custom parts and custom fuel injection ... look up nrg tech out of long island chris miller just ran a 8.86 in a honda civic that is still "stock" bodied aka not a car is still unibody like it came from the factory not made on a jig with a welder and pipe bender
ps i hate civics
ps i hate civics
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,058
Likes: 0
From: emporium
this discussion started out cummins vs powerstroke differences and somehow got on 8.86 sec honda civics? how does a import crap civic get into a 7.3 forum? more importantly who cares about a civic?
