Here is an explanation I got on another site by an Government IT Employee, seems to be a reasonable reply:

1) There is no intrusion on your personal computer when you visit ww.cars.gov which is what "Beck" alleges.

2) There is such a disclaimer, it is on the site that transfers money from the US Treasury to the "dealer". The computer used to suck that money down is subject to scrutiny -anything else would leave the whole operation open to fraud. It's essentially a bank login.

3) That sort of disclaimer is boiler plate required by regulation and used on every login to internal - aka sensitive - federal government systems by "authorized" users. In the case of this particular site you aint one and neither am I so it's no skin off either our noses.

4) I am an authorized user of certain internal systems at NIST because I work there and I get a similar notice every time I login from my home PC. If I don't want to accept the terms I don't log in - simple ehh. But I do because I'm doing business with the government. And the car dealers do because they want the business. So they set up a PC for that purpose - no big deal and nobodies privacy is being invaded.

5) Forigen agencies are explicitly noted in the login banner because we share our breakin info with our friends in foreign countries. They reciprocate. The internet doesn't start or stop at our borders. So if you are hacking in from China don't think you are outside our reach - you ain't. They won't be getting your PII (Personal Identification Information) unless you are a hacker.

6) And perhaps the most absurd of all - you want the government to give you $4500 but you want the dealers acting as your agent to keep your identity, SSN, trade in vehicle registration, home address, etc a secret. Get real. You do file a tax return don't you?

 

I'll add my own comment, usually I prefer not to..

the run up in gas prices (for whatever reason) showed how precariously balanced our economy is. houses and cars are our two major engines. Gas went up, people had to pay, mortgage took the brunt, then we have loss of housing, etc..

Now, I'm not REALLY into helping people that make bad decisions, except when there are a lot of them, AND the impact of their punishment (loss of house, job, car, blah blah) will affect ME (as it is in this case)..

So, altho I don't really LIKE dumping billions and trillions into this crud, exactly who else has the capacity to do it? Business, yeh right.. Government, big government, funded by a large set of contributors is the only viable source. And again, while I don't 'LIKE' it, I do agree that those at the higher income range (I'm one) have a moral obligation to contribute more (percentage) to the benefit of those not so fortunate. (the robinhood effect).

for the CARS program, I don't like the side effect of crsuhing useful parts, BUT its a provocative program and takes an ACTIVE measure against one of the primary threats we continue to face, gas cost impact. (do the math here and its staggering, 300mil cars, 1 gal/day, 3?.. thats a BILLION gallons consumed EVERY DAY!!., if you can change that by a little, it has a REAL impact, $3B/4500 = 2/3 of a million cars). so, who else has the capacity to do something like this?

on health care, I am well insured, but am still concerned. Nearly every bankruptcy prior to this latest mess has a medial care cost component. And there is no such thing as NOT paying.. cause everyone ELSE pays for those that don't. (hey, wait, same root problem).. I would like to KNOW that I and my family (kids still struggling to find their place in the world) are covered and protected.. I'd like for this NOT to mean lower quality of life (all the income goes to the ins premium, or gas, or..) and am willing to give up something (a little) to help make that happen. I'd like the OPTION to ADD payment to IMPROVE over the base provided to all. but the base has to be enough.

So, I am for government, not a lot, just enough, especially in times that NEED its singular ability to pick us up by the bootstraps and dust us off. The PEOPLE that RUN our government can come and go (if we so choose), and sometimes we get out commensurate with our contribution.. (I'm not too fond of most of our legislative branch as people). But I particularly dislike other government styles that allow their operators to quit when times get tough (disband parliament, whatever). It still has to operate and the disruption caused by the quit/restart cycle eliminates any real possibility of the continuity required to actually DO anything for the population you serve.

my twenty cents

sam

Oh, and we have an open criticism system here.. everyone and their brother is allowed to/encouraged to voice their opinion on everything (up to the point it 'hurts' someone else), so the cacophony is amazing. While I hate the noise and general discontent it seems to project, I much prefer this over other systems we've seen in action lately.

 

Apparently, I must be one of the few FTE members that frequents Government websites. All of the Government websites that you visit, that are actually from a Government server, have a disclaimer similar to the one in the first post. You are a guest IP logging into their secured system. It doesn't mean they "Own" your system, it means they have the ability to monitor all your actions on their server, and if you do something to trigger an alert, they will know about it. Also, the Cash for Clunkers. In order to be eligible, the vehicle must be 1984 and newer, and must get less than 18 miles per gallon. And must be traded in for a rig getting more than 18 miles per gallon. So, no one can take an old 50's or 60's era truck in and get it crushed. Also, I just dealt with a Cash for Clunkers car, they "MUST" go to a wrecking yard (not the crusher) for 6 months. The wrecking yard MUST be on the list of approved "Auto Recyclers", and they cannot sell the engine, but can sell all the body parts, and interior, and other things like that. After 6 months, the car MUST be crushed. That's the problem with the internet. A big headline, and lots of freaking out. So, yes you can go buy those axles, you have to wait until it gets to the wrecking yard. The dealer cannot do anything to the vehicle. They can drive it to a holding area, and that's it. It must sit there until a dismantler comes for it.

 

Let me be more clear on this part. I read it, and it can be confusing. The car can be crushe anytime by the yard, but the yard cannot keep any part of it in inventory for longer than 6 months. The engine cannot be resold, even as a core. The transmission is questionable, and no part of the emmisions, or exhaust system can be sold, except for teh recycling of the catylitic converters. So, car goes to dealer. Dealer contacts yard. Yard comes get car. Yard determines fate of car, and must prove disposition of car. Yard says "crush it" or "strip it". Strip it means gets parted out, crush it means, well, replacement body panels for next years Hyundai. That's it in a nutshell. Car must be one of those ugly piles of "Reliant" style cars from 1984 and newer, and must get less than 18 miles per gallon. Here's the tricky part. The rules are vague as to whether or not it's city or highway MPG. The new vehicle must get more than 18 MPG, and again, it's kind of vague as to city or highway.

 

doesn't matter what the 'actual' mileage is (or even what the manufacturer claimed), its what on the CARS program site listing.
(a bunch were just reclassified which caused some problems)

Sam

 

Nothing vague about the MPG...it's averaged. If you have a vehicle that gets 14 city and 18 highway then your MPG for the C4C program is 16 MPG.

 

As far as what the governement will start off with and where it will go with geovernement healthcare remeber this:

The income tax was initially sold as being temporary to fund a war. Social Security funds were never to be used to supplement the general fund, etc, Give these guys an inch and they will take a foot of meat and cheese.

I'm Done.

 

yeh, long term vision and commitment to plan is a BIG ongoing problem.

Sam

 

"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan

 

sorry, to clarify, Business will protect ITSELF.. it has no interest in protecting society as a whole..

we are not arguing effective here.. its the something vs nothing.

sam

 

The problem is with society as a whole, not the government. We, The People, have allowed the Government to act on its own accord. We, The People, have failed to exercise our duty as the actual employers in charge. We, The People, have failed to keep the Government in check, and therefore, the Government, has been allowed to turn the table. We, The People, have taken for granted, all the sacrifices made by the millions of men, women, children, and animals, that have geiven all upon the Alter of Freedom. We, The People, have the ultimate power vested upon us to alter or abolish the current Government, and in its place, effect a new establishment for the greater good of the people. So, rather than blame the persons in Government, perhaps we should all blame ourselves. We caused this mess, and we are ultimately responsible for the consequences created by our lack of action to enforce restraint upon our governing bodies. We have the right to revolt, and that right will never be exercised, because in the end, we are all too scared, or weak to do anything about it.

 

Maybe we should change the word Government in this discussion to Politics as it's the politics that is screwing things up and has taken Government completely out of the equation.

 

Yep, as I said before we get out what we put in.. But I think our reps do what the cacophony tells them to do. Many of us 'individuals' don't see how they interpreted our 'input' to the actions they took, and then we don't exercise our power to correct that when we have the chance. I personally don't think the government does 'what it wants', cause its only doing what the cacophony tells it to do. There are just too many actors to allow it to act on its own. I also think its a lot more complex than any of us individuals care to admit.. there are a LOT of moving parts, and hacks on hacks.
As a process guy, I am always interested in the mechanisms used over the lifetime of projects to see the initial ideas, the compromises, adjustments, corrections..

there are indeed cases of abuse, at all levels.. good thing is they are forced to be recleaned at least every 8 yrs.. and at least we have someone outside the Clinton and Bush families giving direction for the first time in 20 yrs..

Sam