Leaf spring greasing/oiling
#31
Have any of you rigorously cleaned your leaf springs (taken the pack apart) and greased, oiled or put liners in them? How is the ride afterwards?
I ask because I really oiled up my new front springs before putting them in, and while they seem to work smoothly, I also notice that the shocks are now overwhelmed and in general, there is not enough damping. I'm thinking that the rust and dirt in the spring pack may serve a useful function, like a friction damper on the older units.
I ask because I really oiled up my new front springs before putting them in, and while they seem to work smoothly, I also notice that the shocks are now overwhelmed and in general, there is not enough damping. I'm thinking that the rust and dirt in the spring pack may serve a useful function, like a friction damper on the older units.
When I rebuild springs, I take them apart, wire brush them and recoat them with a good black chassis paint. They are easy to work with as you can re-arch them or flatten them demending on the ride height that you want, and you can add or remove leves depending on the stiffness you want. I would not lube the leaves because without a metalized cover, they can not be kept clean and will eventially change stiffness as the grease degrades.....
Alan
#32
That's the advantange and reason for using HMW plastic slider strips between the leafs instead of grease. Years ago we would grease the leafs especially with early Ford buggy springs. then wrap the entire spring with a couple layers of electrical tape to keep the dirt out. You would have to rewrap occasionally as the tape deteriorated.
#34
Alan
#35
#36
Springs do one job, dampers do another (besides damping the springs). Springs are not dampers, should not be considered such or expected to do the job of dampers. Ford who was known to be a major skinflint, would not ave put dampers on his vehicles if the springs could have been made to do the same thing. Friction between the leafs is detrimental to the spring operation, causing uneven and unpredictable rate characteristics, and wear between the leafs which causes more friction/wear until the leaf is weakened enough to break. Many vehicles with leaf springs came OEM with friction reducing pads or pucks between the leafs. I want my springs to operate smoothly and predictably so I can dampen them properly. Sorry, but it's misinformation like this that causes people to be dissatisfied with the ride/handling of their leaf sprung truck and make them want to change it for IFS.
Chuck
who is considering writing a book on suspensions and how they work.
Chuck
who is considering writing a book on suspensions and how they work.
#37
Leaf springs actually do most of their "damping" through the friction.
Its why a lot of trailers with leaf springs don't have dampers (you won't find a trailer with coils that doesn't though).
Most dampers for coil springs provide about 4-6 times the damping of those fitted to a typical leaf spring equipped vehicle (purely down to the "damping" caused by the friction of the leaves).
If you have greased the leaves, putting on dampers which are valved differently would be a waste, because 2 months later you will be looking at springs that have had most of the grease out of it, and it now will ride bumps like it has no suspension.
I suggest just putting up with it for the time being.
Its why a lot of trailers with leaf springs don't have dampers (you won't find a trailer with coils that doesn't though).
Most dampers for coil springs provide about 4-6 times the damping of those fitted to a typical leaf spring equipped vehicle (purely down to the "damping" caused by the friction of the leaves).
If you have greased the leaves, putting on dampers which are valved differently would be a waste, because 2 months later you will be looking at springs that have had most of the grease out of it, and it now will ride bumps like it has no suspension.
I suggest just putting up with it for the time being.
#38
i agree that greasing the leafs is very old school and of little value, but years ago it was the best solution we had. Today High Molecular Weight (HMW) Plastic strip or buttons (if your springs have depressions near the ends of the leaf, then you should use the buttons set into those depressions. If the leaf is smooth then use the strips) is the proper friction reducer to use it is very tough and slippery and soft enough that grit will embed into the plastic rather than change the friction. The spring steel will wear before the plastic. A properly shaped spring leaf set is arched in such as way as to minimize friction between them. That shaping is what creates the preload on the spring that will blow it apart should one remove the centerbolt nut without clamping the center of the spring together and slowly releasing the spring tension after removing the centerbolt. If friction between the leafs was desirable they would perfectly nest one inside the other in full contact without preload.
The difference in damper valving required is not due to the friction in the leaf spring, but in the "spring" characterisics of the two different configurations. A coil spring is linear in deflection i.e. if 200# compresses the coil 1" then 400# will compress it 2", 600# 3", etc. A leaf spring is progressive as more leafs are deflected as the spring is loaded, i.e. on a given leaf spring 200# may also cause a 1" deflection, but 400# may only deflect it an additional 1/2" and 600# another 1/4" for a total deflection of 1-3/4" with a 600" load. (these deflections are simplified for ease of understanding, in the real world the deflection is typically closer to exponential) That stiffening under increasing loads and ease of adjusting the rate of deflection is what makes leaf springs ideal for supporting heavy loads.
The difference in damper valving required is not due to the friction in the leaf spring, but in the "spring" characterisics of the two different configurations. A coil spring is linear in deflection i.e. if 200# compresses the coil 1" then 400# will compress it 2", 600# 3", etc. A leaf spring is progressive as more leafs are deflected as the spring is loaded, i.e. on a given leaf spring 200# may also cause a 1" deflection, but 400# may only deflect it an additional 1/2" and 600# another 1/4" for a total deflection of 1-3/4" with a 600" load. (these deflections are simplified for ease of understanding, in the real world the deflection is typically closer to exponential) That stiffening under increasing loads and ease of adjusting the rate of deflection is what makes leaf springs ideal for supporting heavy loads.
#39
The difference in damper valving required is not due to the friction in the leaf spring, but in the "spring" characterisics of the two different configurations. A coil spring is linear in deflection i.e. if 200# compresses the coil 1" then 400# will compress it 2", 600# 3", etc. A leaf spring is progressive as more leafs are deflected as the spring is loaded, i.e. on a given leaf spring 200# may also cause a 1" deflection, but 400# may only deflect it an additional 1/2" and 600# another 1/4" for a total deflection of 1-3/4" with a 600" load. (these deflections are simplified for ease of understanding, in the real world the deflection is typically closer to exponential) That stiffening under increasing loads and ease of adjusting the rate of deflection is what makes leaf springs ideal for supporting heavy loads.
#41
#42
#43
Mid Fifty sells it by the roll. You will need to cut it to length and punch the centerbolt holes. Note, don't use a knife, drill or similar to make the holes. A rough cut will encourage tearing. I would punch the holes by sharpening the end of a piece of thin walled tubing, then use it as a punch, backing the plastic with the end grain of a piece of wood like a short 2x4 cutoff. The endgrain will yield a clean cut and not tear up your punch.
#44
Yea, good point about drilling the center holes for each. I was intently reviewing the Mid-Fifty catalog last night drooling over all the new parts and found that they sell the stuff for the rear leafs for $26 and the front leafs for $24. Is that the correct HMW stuff you are talking about?
#45