Tracking down the elusive pinging problem.
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Junior User
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 57
Likes: 1
From: Fullerton, Ca.
Tracking down the elusive pinging problem.
I'm looking for all ideas on what could be causing my pinging problem, 1990 F250, 7.5l.
First the background: It has been pinging for years.
Only occurs during closed-loop operation.
It is minimal on cold days and worse on hot days.
Using higher octane fuel decreases the pinging.
Retarding the timing decreases the pinging.
I have been reading every thread on pinging issues and have found a whole host of items that could be the culprit with the EGR or a vacuum leak being the most often mentioned. I just resolved a code 32 problem with the EVP (found very low vac at the EVR) and was hoping that would have cured it. It got rid of the of the code but did not correct the pinging, well it actually did help enough that at least I can run the timing at 10 deg BTDC, but that’s only because the WX is not hot right now. Soon as the temps pick up I'll have to retard or run premium fuel. I had read a thread that the 460s don't like the Platinum plugs so I switched those this weekend with ordinary Autolite copper plugs, still pings.
I'm not an auto mechanic but my understanding or the causes of pinging are: 1) too high compression for the fuel used, 2) too lean mixture, 3) timing too far advanced.
The plugs I just pulled out show signs of running lean; very light beige color on one side of each plug, the other side looks closer to normal. Here is what I don't understand, if the ECU is supposed to control the optimal mixture, 14.7, why is it running lean. The truck has 170k miles on it and I never changed the O2 sensor so I did that too this weekend, Bosch. Still pings. I don't want to just start swapping out sensors without any diagnostics.
I don't think it has a vacuum leak of any magnitude or it would ping during open loop operation, correct?
Any ideas? Fuel pressure? Clogged injectors? (all the plugs looked identical though). Bad plug wires causing misfiring and tricking the ECU into thinking its running lean? A out of calibration MAP sensor? I'm open to all suggestions and really interested if someone has had the same and what they found. It's a great truck, really clean, gets lots of looks, but the pinging is driving me to my wits end.
All replies greatly appreciated.
First the background: It has been pinging for years.
Only occurs during closed-loop operation.
It is minimal on cold days and worse on hot days.
Using higher octane fuel decreases the pinging.
Retarding the timing decreases the pinging.
I have been reading every thread on pinging issues and have found a whole host of items that could be the culprit with the EGR or a vacuum leak being the most often mentioned. I just resolved a code 32 problem with the EVP (found very low vac at the EVR) and was hoping that would have cured it. It got rid of the of the code but did not correct the pinging, well it actually did help enough that at least I can run the timing at 10 deg BTDC, but that’s only because the WX is not hot right now. Soon as the temps pick up I'll have to retard or run premium fuel. I had read a thread that the 460s don't like the Platinum plugs so I switched those this weekend with ordinary Autolite copper plugs, still pings.
I'm not an auto mechanic but my understanding or the causes of pinging are: 1) too high compression for the fuel used, 2) too lean mixture, 3) timing too far advanced.
The plugs I just pulled out show signs of running lean; very light beige color on one side of each plug, the other side looks closer to normal. Here is what I don't understand, if the ECU is supposed to control the optimal mixture, 14.7, why is it running lean. The truck has 170k miles on it and I never changed the O2 sensor so I did that too this weekend, Bosch. Still pings. I don't want to just start swapping out sensors without any diagnostics.
I don't think it has a vacuum leak of any magnitude or it would ping during open loop operation, correct?
Any ideas? Fuel pressure? Clogged injectors? (all the plugs looked identical though). Bad plug wires causing misfiring and tricking the ECU into thinking its running lean? A out of calibration MAP sensor? I'm open to all suggestions and really interested if someone has had the same and what they found. It's a great truck, really clean, gets lots of looks, but the pinging is driving me to my wits end.
All replies greatly appreciated.
Elder User
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 601
Likes: 1
From: Chicagoland
Here's a cut-and-paste from a FoMoCo shop manual I have. Hopefully there's something in here you haven't tried.
Code:
Spark Knock
ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÂÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿
³ ³ Possible Causes ³
ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÅÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÂÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ´
³ System ³ Visual/Mechanical ³ EEC ³
ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÅÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÅÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ´
³ Air/Vacuum ³ ù Check vacuum lines for ³ ù TP sensor ³
³ ³ leaks or wear. ³ ù MAP/BARO sensor ³
³ ³ ù Check air intake system. ³ ù MAF sensor ³
³ ³ ù Check for exhaust leak. ³ ù IAT sensor ³
ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÅÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÅÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ´
³ Ignition ³ ù Check for correct base ³ ù Ignition System: ³
³ ³ timing. ³ PIP circuit ³
³ ³ ù Check for wear or corrosion ³ SPOUT circuit ³
³ ³ in distributor. ³ ³
³ ³ ù Inspect ICM for damage. ³ ³
ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÅÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÅÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ´
³ Fuel ³ ù Check for correct fuel ³ ù HO2S(s) ³
³ ³ pressure. ³ ù Fuel Injection: ³
³ ³ ù Check fuel lines for ³ INJ 1, 2 (MFI) ³
³ ³ contamination or ³ INJ 1, 2 .. (SFI) ³
³ ³ restrictions. ³ ù FPRC solenoid ³
ÃÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÅÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÅÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ´
³ Other ³ ù Check EGR valve sticking. ³ ù EGR Systems: ³
³ ³ ù Check PCV valve for correct ³ EGRT, EVP, DPFE or PFE ³
³ ³ operation. ³ sensor ³
³ ³ ù Check for restricted ³ EGR solenoid(s) ³
³ ³ exhaust. ³ ù KS sensor ³
³ ³ ù Check engine coolant level. ³ ù ECT sensor ³
³ ³ ù Check thermostat for proper ³ ³
³ ³ operation. ³ ³
³ ³ ù Inspect electrical ³ ³
³ ³ connections, wires and ³ ³
³ ³ harnesses. ³ ³
³ ³ ù Check for partially binding ³ ³
³ ³ brakes. ³ ³
ÀÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÁÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÁÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÙ
Fleet Owner
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 21,437
Likes: 76
From: Gilbert, PA
What he said. Try a can of SEAFOAM. Let the engine suck it up through the brake booster hose. Once the can is empty, shut the truck off and let is set for 15-20 min. Then go for a hell ride. It will smoke like you have blown head gaskets, dont worry about it. That is just all the carbon getting burned up. The truck will run great!
Thread Starter
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Junior User
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 57
Likes: 1
From: Fullerton, Ca.
Yea, I have thought about the SeaFoam thing. I watched a couple vids on YouTube using that stuff, kind of a scene. I live on the Left Coast, all the Greenies would hunt me down and tie me to a tree, oh wait, a landscaping post make from post user recycled yard waste, and flog me. Actually, I bought a large container of Techron, found a Chrysler oriented site that had some pretty good general info on pinging, said the Techron removes carbon. I might still try the SeaFoam but may just put my old O2 sensor back in while I do that. I know it's not supposed to harm sensors but why chance it.
Thanks for the shop manual info and the SeaFoam recommendation !
Any other high probability items to address?
Thanks for the shop manual info and the SeaFoam recommendation !
Any other high probability items to address?
Elder User
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 500
Likes: 1
From: Angleton Tx.
Well I had the same problem and with NO codes. I started using SHELL Gas ( regular ) after I used the SEAFOAM and the pinging is gone. I know some people on here will say the Shell gas is hype, but i know it worked for me and helps my wifes expedition, increased mpg by about 3-4 mpg's
Fleet Owner
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 23,667
Likes: 301
From: Easton,Ks
Sounds just like an engine I had and acted like you described.
It turned out that it was not a pinging problem after all.
It was piston slap.
I replaced the engine.
It turned out that it was not a pinging problem after all.
It was piston slap.
I replaced the engine.
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Thread Starter
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Junior User
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 57
Likes: 1
From: Fullerton, Ca.
Well, thanks for the encouraging words Mr. Subford. 
I'm reasonably certain, becuase of several the particulars I'm mentioned at the beginning of this post, it is strictly an fuel delivery/induction or emission system type problem.
Seems like a lot guys have had success with the SeaFoam, I guess I should try that too so that I can rule out carbon build-up.
Thanks again for ALL comments!
I'm reasonably certain, becuase of several the particulars I'm mentioned at the beginning of this post, it is strictly an fuel delivery/induction or emission system type problem. Seems like a lot guys have had success with the SeaFoam, I guess I should try that too so that I can rule out carbon build-up.
Thanks again for ALL comments!
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