Duraspark III
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Duraspark III
I have an 83 F150 with a 351. I can not get spark. New coil, plugs, wires, cap, and rotor. It is a point system with no pickup inside the dist. I am stumped to what it could be.
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Cargo Master
Joined: Mar 2007
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From: Arcadia, Fla
Duraspark III has no points, its like the DS2 system but with a special ECU controlled spark modual(yellow gromet) and no vacuum or centfrigual advance in the dizzy. Unless someone swapped in a points type system in your truck, then follow what Bashby said.
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Here is a picture.
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I put the test light on the - side of the coil and the clamp to ground. It does not light when I start it.
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FTE Leadership Emeritus
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If you have DS III, a digitial multimeter is your best friend.
DS III will not spark if the Crankshaft Position Sensor is bad. You can check it without removing it. The CPS pickup coil is clamped near the 4 lobed pulse ring mounted on the harmonic balancer. Follow the wires up to the wiring harness on the top of the engine. (If I remember correctly, the wires run up the front of the engine on the same side as the smog pump.) Unplug CPS from harness and test the resistance of the CPS coil with your digital meter.
Crankshaft Position (CP) Sensor.... Gray-Dk Blue.... 100-640 ohms resistance.
If you need to replace the CPS, gap it .075" between the tip of the pulse ring lobe and the magnet.
FWIW, DS III/EEC-III uses only the ignition module with the brown grommet.
DS III will not spark if the Crankshaft Position Sensor is bad. You can check it without removing it. The CPS pickup coil is clamped near the 4 lobed pulse ring mounted on the harmonic balancer. Follow the wires up to the wiring harness on the top of the engine. (If I remember correctly, the wires run up the front of the engine on the same side as the smog pump.) Unplug CPS from harness and test the resistance of the CPS coil with your digital meter.
Crankshaft Position (CP) Sensor.... Gray-Dk Blue.... 100-640 ohms resistance.
If you need to replace the CPS, gap it .075" between the tip of the pulse ring lobe and the magnet.
FWIW, DS III/EEC-III uses only the ignition module with the brown grommet.
Cargo Master
Joined: Mar 2007
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From: Arcadia, Fla
Intresting, Horsepuller, I pulled a 302 from a 83 merc marque and it has the DS3(no CPS) and EEC3 system that used the yellow grommet and that VV carb. Must be diffrent for cars or someone hacked something up...
If there is no power to the coil + side check for a open resistance wire or switch problem, if it is good and still no power from the - side of coil, check to see if the ignition module is shorted(disconnect it) if power still not retured to the - side of coil, it looks like the coil is bad(open primary). As you said you replaced the coil and still have no voltage on the - side of coil, you could have a shorted ignition module
If there is no power to the coil + side check for a open resistance wire or switch problem, if it is good and still no power from the - side of coil, check to see if the ignition module is shorted(disconnect it) if power still not retured to the - side of coil, it looks like the coil is bad(open primary). As you said you replaced the coil and still have no voltage on the - side of coil, you could have a shorted ignition module
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would the resistance wire be under the dash? How can I tell which wire it is?
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From: Southern California
Module Identification:
Grommet color ...Type of Igniton System
Red .................DS I
White ..............DS II (with cranking retard)
Blue ................DS II
Yellow .............DS II (Dual mode) (whatever that is)
Green or Black ...Early Solid State Ignition
Brown ..............EEC System
Old School Hot Rodder
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From: Exmore, VA
DS III was used in the early EEC III systems. Some Lincoln Versailles models had it 50 state along with the VV carb. The first version had the crank pickup on the back of the block going down into the rear main area. Ford got smart and moved it to the balancer after that. They can be an absolute pain to troubleshoot as you have a computer between the crank trigger and the Duraspark module. Good luck with it, I used to hate those systems for mystery no spark problems. I don't remember if there was a way to test only the DS III portion without special tools.
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Joined: Sep 2000
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From: Southern California
DS III was used in the early EEC III systems. Some Lincoln Versailles models had it 50 state along with the VV carb. The first version had the crank pickup on the back of the block going down into the rear main area. Ford got smart and moved it to the balancer after that. They can be an absolute pain to troubleshoot as you have a computer between the crank trigger and the Duraspark module. Good luck with it, I used to hate those systems for mystery no spark problems. I don't remember if there was a way to test only the DS III portion without special tools.
EEC-III is really pretty good at what it does if you take the time to understand it. It predates IBM personal computers by at least 3 years. There are still a few Ford vehicles with EEC-III running around. How many IBM XT's are still operating? But still it sucks. It was manufactured in low numbers for only a few years and was immediately made obsolete by EEC-IV/DS-IV and none of the diagnostic tools were backward compatible.
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Does anyone have any idea why I am not getting spark. I have 12 volts at + coil when starting but nothing out of plugs. Should I be getting more voltage. There is nothing after the coil. just the dizzy, wires, and plugs.
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Cargo Master
Joined: Mar 2007
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From: Arcadia, Fla
Dasander, did you understand Horsepuller's post#6 and my post #7? With that info both posts have should help you find your problem. One thing I found out about the EECIV ignition system is if the ECU shuts down you will get no spark unless you disconnect the "SPOUT" like you would do to set your base timing. Now on the EECIII system I don't know if it has a SPOUT connector, but try disconnecting the ECU harness but leave the ignition modual hooked up, if by chance the EECIII ECU fails and shuts down the spark, I think by disconnecting it will alow the ignition module to hopefully run the engine at base timing. Does that sound like a good check Horsepuller?
Got to dig up some old Ford books I have on EECIII, and learn about it.
Got to dig up some old Ford books I have on EECIII, and learn about it.
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The EEC is under the dash. Where is the ECU? The CPS is good and just replaced ignition module. Should a spark plug wire be able to carry 12v if I put it on the battery terminal? How can I check the wire. I have 12v on the + side of coil when cranking and 6V when in run. Is this OK.
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