Hi Bob! Oh boy finally a fun thread!

I read it through a couple of times (lets see if Bob gets on the B&O railroad in Baltimore heading east at 23 MPH.....)

I have a couple thoughts. First I'm very perplexed that youwere able to remove your positive ground cable and the truck continued to run - it's not supposed to. Without a ground cable connected to the battery (and maybe even a strap to the frame or the body) nothing should work.

It should work if you remove the power terminal (in your case with a 6V Pos ground that's the negative post) because the end of the charging circuit connects to and is distributed from the battery post of the starter solenoid - not the battery - the battery is a peripheral after the truck is started and provides ground.

You have a bad connection somewhere in your charging circuit or a bad ground.

Yours is a 49 so be patient if I screw up the signal flow. But my intent here is to give you spots to check connections.

First one is the connection between the battery terminal of your regulator and where it first connects - that will be one of two places - either on the back of the two circuit breakers on the instrument cluster (if you have them), on your headlight switch, or at your ignition switch battery post.

That wire has to have intact connections for the regulator to sense the need for amps as something is used (after the truck is started, the ignition can run for a couple of hours on battery juice alone). That wire should then travel through your amp guage to the battery post of the starter solenoid.

The reason I mention these locations is because you hit on two of the three that would cause the engine death if there was a short - headlight switch and ignition switch (depending on whether or not the battery wire from the regulator posts there first).

So check out the connections on that circuit, and on those two items.

The regulator being polarized should have no effect as you are actually creating magnetism in the generator field by polarizing, not in the regulator - so the polarization of the generator should have remained.

But the base line is youhave one of three problems: 1) you have something that is breaking power (which I doubt because of the differrent distribution paths for power) 2) failure of a main ground cable; or 3) something is introducing an unwanted ground (short - like a cross between a headlight wire that charging wire).

If Ihad to take all the factors I'm thinking of, I would venture to say your charging wire travels to the battery lug of your ignition switch, and that lug (or the switch) is bad.

I'll think about this for a couple hours and get back to you on it. Is your truck wired the same as the 49 electrical diagram in the shop manual? It would be a big help to know.

 

I rewired the entire truck, front to back with new wire following the wire diagram in the shop manual. I did this in the Spring of '07 and it ran fine until the very end of last Summer then it starting having charging problems so I can be fairly certain my wiring is correct or I'd have the problem from the start. I have feeling after reading the suggestions it's the a switch or a circuit breaker. I'll check the highlight switch because as I mentioned in the first post the headlights were slightly flickering and then cleared up.

Man, I'm going to be busy chasing wires. I'm also in the process of trying to get the brakes rebuilt on the F-2. Not enough time in the day.

 

That helps quite a bit.

I looked at the 49 wiring diagram in the shop manual. And your charge from the generator regulator batter post goes to the 30 amp circuit breaker, then through the ammeter to the starter relay battery post. Simple.

The imbacils who drew up the wiring diagrams conveniently left off teh ignition switch and how it is powered - but it's not important it's out of the loop.

The ONLY common denomenator between the headlights and the charging circuit is the circuit breakers. And there should be a hard connection between the inbound post from the generator regulator and the outbound post on the opposite breaker that goes through the ammeter to the starter solenoid.

The headlight switches are simple mechanical contact slide switches.

The only way I can see the headlight switch killing the ignition is if: 1) the battery connection is bad and the truck is running off the charging circuit AND 2) you have reversed the wire hook ups on the 30 amp circuit breaker, and when you turned on the lights the breaker popped and cut off the flow going out to the other breaker via the hard wire AND subsequently the wire carrying the charge to the starter solenoid. When the breaker resets, it all works fine.

If the breaker were to be back wired it would slowly weaken (and subsequently restrict charge flow) up to a point where it would with a high charge rate (from the battery being out of the circuit) trip with a high draw (headlights - which is the only item on that breaker)

Only problem in that scenario is, if the battery connections are good enough to turn the starter, then they should be strong enough to run the truck in the event of a charging power inturuption.

But, like you, I'd suspect the breaker (either weak or shorting intermittently) wiring at the breaker(either reversed OR an intermittent short between two wires), AND battery health/connections.

Sorry I can't get you any closer than that Bob.

Have fun

PS I'm sure you've checked that your regulator is grounded right - should be if it's sheet metal screwed to the firewall or fender.

PSS I have two extra sets of circuit breakers. If you find you need one, you can have them.

 

I guess I got lucky. The battery in my '54 F-100 (6 volt) was bought in August of 1999! It started my truck this winter in 5 degree weather! I plan on buying a new on this summer. I want to get 10 full years!

 

Julie,

I noticed the omission of the ignition switch in the shop drawing way back when I started work on the F-2. Ford anyone interested, the Van Pelt site has a drawing with the ignition switch. I don't have any idea of where he got it from:



I didn't get a chance to work on the truck last night but I had to move it out of the shed yesterday and park it outside for the day and then move it back in last night. Both times I had to start it it fired right up. When I moved it back last night it fired right up but after having it run for about five minutes and turning it off it wouldn't start again.

Abe,

It's getting harder to find 6 volt batteries around here. Way back I bought the original battery for my F-2 and it lasted pretty long time. When it died I went back to the same place and found they were selling a different brand which was the start of batteries that didn't seem to last. I suppose since the demand for 6 volt batteries die there are going to be fewer vendor out there making them and less resources dedicated to making good ones.

 

I'd check farm supply stores for 6V batteries. Also Optima makes a 6V version of their sealed cell battery, a little pricey but hard to kill. Typically when headlights flicker and engine dies, it's a bad ground. Check not only the battery ground wire but grounding straps between engine and chassis, cab and chassis.

 

I agree with AX it does sound like a groundin gissue because it is affecting so many things.

It's difficult to find any other common denominator. But in looking at the drawing you posted of your electrical system, I may have to withdraw my statement about the ignition switch not being a possible suspect - I see where it's drawing power from.

 

I missed if the headlights flicker at the same time the engine dies, or at different times?

 

Hi Bob,
It is either a bad connection whicg could be anywhere in the circuit meaning battery terminals or an intermittant internal connection between cells in the battery. I would first check ALL battery cable connections. Then if the problem persists try another battery. You can go to Autozone and get them to run a resistance load test on the battery.

The polarization thing does not come and go. If it charged after the regulator was installed you are good to go.

Later Man...

 

I've noticed the lights flicker as the truck is running. Then they burn bright. Now with all discussion of grounds it sounds like a bad ground.

I should have checked the ground before posting but it was getting late and I figured I'd throw it out there to see what suggestions I would get. Usually if some one posts a problem with dim or non working lights the first thing I would suggest is checking the ground. At the time I made my first post my focus was on the regulator although I did do a quick check of the ground from the battery to the engine block I didn't think of checking the ground to the other parts of the system. I hope to have a chance to do it tonight. I would like to have the truck up and running so I can go to the local cruise this week.

 

Yep, electricity is sneaky! It got ya with the Regulator diversion gag....Oldest trick in the book.

The ground may also be affected because you have a short in the battery in the cell under the positive post. But with it being intermittent power and flickering, it sounds more like a ground connection.

VOODOO!

 

Here's an interesting note:

If you look in your 49-51 Shop Manual on page 278 (Fig 89) and look at the circuit breaker wiring, you will notice it is the same signal flow as the drawing Bob posted above (except it also does not have the ignition switch connection shown).

BUT if yougo to Page 381 and look at Fig. 1, you'll note that the curcuit breakers are wired differently - as now both power sources feed into the 30 amp breaker. I don't think it would make a difference in this case, unless you wired it this way (and I don't think Bob did) and the bridge wire had a loose connection.

But if you are rewiring to stock, it is worth mentioning. I discovered that making up my latest "Wiz Bang" Power Point Wiring Drawing:

 

A quick way to troubleshoot grounds. Use your jumper cables to go between the battery and the block. Then the other cable between the block and the cab, etc. Voltage checking. Using your meter, make some leads with 10 foot of wire, add alligator clips to reach between the engine and the cab while running the engine to check voltages. chuck

 

OK, OK here is what I did tonight:

I disconnected all of the battery cables and cleaned them and the battery posts. I replaced the ground from the battery to the engine with a heavier cable, the one I had installed was a 12 volt cable, the new one is twice as thick. I started the truck and got a charge indication, not much but I did get something. I turned on the headlights and the ampmeter went dead. From the point on it didn't register anything.

I had the truck running for at least a ½ hour while taking a jumper cable and grounding the frame and body at different points. This didn't seem to do anything to the ampmeter or the headlights that still flicker slightly. I decided to take it up the road and see what happens. I made it up and down the road and turned around to start going up the road again and I flipped the headlights on and the truck died. I couldn't get it to start, the engine cranked over a few times but the battery died. I checked the circuit breakers behind the dash and got good continuity indicating they weren't tripped. I thought maybe by turning on the headlights I might have tripped the circuit breaker. I swapped batteries with the one that is in the F-2. The truck still wouldn't start, it just cranked over like it had no spark. I screwed around some more and finally the truck started up like there was no problem. I pulled it up to the garage turned it off then right away tried to started it and started right up. I did this a few times and it started without a problem. I started it again and turned on the headlights and it died. When I tried to start it quickly ran the battery dead, it again sounded like it wasn't getting any spark. I hot wired the coil directly to the battery with a piece of wire and it started right up. Disconnected the battery and reconnected it and again it started right up. I then went back and tried to start it using the key and it wouldn't start. Went back and started it again with the wire, turned it off and started it with the key. I seem to notice a very slight pop, like it was missing. I hooked up the wire to the battery again, while the truck was running and it sparked when I connected it, and , the truck seemed to run a little smoother. I did this a couple of times and I seemed hear it smoot out again. My wife came out and she agreed she could hear a difference. I suppect the ignition switch could have a bad contact inside. I wouldn't think you wouldn't get a noticible spark when hot wiring the coil if you already have the ignition switch turned on.

Even if the ignition switch is bad how would this affect the ampmeter? I would suspect the ampmeter might be bad but the battery still does not seem to charge. I rechecked the generator and I got 7+ volts coming out of it.

This would be so much easier to remedy if it were happening on my '04 daily driver. I'd notice I have a charging problem and take it in and have it fixed.

 

One of the benefits of old vehicles, you get to fix them yourself.