what is IMO?

 

yea sorry for being confusing. I am getting a full HID kit and putting them in my stock housing. They are a bulb, ballast, and bracket that plug into the stock harness. The bulbs are the 6000K color tempture (sunlight is 5475K approx.) the higher the Kelvin number the more blue in the light, they go up to 12000K which is almost purple. and I think they go down to about 4500K which has a lot of yellow in it. So they should be pure white with just a slight hint of blue which is the standard color of stock HIDs. I will defently do before and after pictures and let you guys see what they look like. I currently have silverstars.

Most car companies use the 6000K color, audi uses 8000K.

p.s. IMO is "in my opinion"

Marc

 

Do your homework first. As mentioned in an earlier post, many of the reflectors in these trucks are really not that great. Making the light brighter does not fix this problem.

Silverstars are a joke, never buy them. They have a color filter which gives them a poor output while appearing to be brighter than Halogens. The Xtravision is a much brighter bulb, about 20% brighter. Whats better is the Xtravision outputs more light in the yellow spectrum. This is the beneficial area.

Color temperature does not reflect brightness. The Audis have terrible light output and the HIDs they use here are already illegal in some countries because they are found to contribute to collisions with other drivers and with wildlife. They blind oncoming traffic.

They best ones do not have a hint of blue, the yellow dominant lights are much better visibility.

For more information visit Daniel Stern Lighting Consultancy and Supply

Or more specifically
Daniel Stern Lighting Consultancy and Supply

 

Well here is the before and after pictures of the HID lights installed on my 04 250




BEFORE




AFTER

I need to aim them a little better still but this was just after the install. They are 6000K color.

I think I might have to do my fogs too to make them match.

 

Thos pictures are quite small. Any chance you can make them bigger?

 

nice. i think you should def do the fogs as well

 

here is a little bigger...






sorry they were so small last time!

 

The first pictures are brighter. I can tell by the gamma correction that your camera is doing. The second picture is not cutting off properly, and is just randomly scattering light all over the place. They look nothing like street legal HIDs, and are illegal and dangerous. The second picture has the appearance of being brighter because it is taken from a closer distance, and because the whole picture is brighter. Don't believe me, look at the non-illuminated parts of the pictures or the amber lights on top. The pictures do not have equal exposures. The second picture is fuzzy, indistinct, etc.

Don't think I enjoy telling you this, I tried to get you to do your homework before you bought them. Thats why I provided the links to the resources to look into this for yourself. HIDs have been repeatedly proven to be unsafe when used as retrofits.

The Daniel Stern website refers to this issue as the same thing as a person wearing someone else's perscription glasses. The reflector on your truck is not the right one for the HID bulbs you have installed.

 

Yes that is a very intresting site but i just think it is weird that according to that site the only good bulbs are the stock ones. But yet silvania sells silverstars and all types of bulbs like that, and they are all dot approved and claim brighter better light.

and yes i see how the reflectors on the superduty don't project the light as smoothly but the ones on my wifes liberty does a much better job.

 

That is true, but you also notice that this site also talks about Silverstars and Nighthawks, and other 'tinted" bulbs. They explain how they are perceptually brighter, that they create the illusion of whiter brighter light. But Silverstars are actually Sylvania Xtravision bulbs with a different gas blend and a filter.

Silverstars are halogens, and are DOT approved because they are within the approved range. But being whiter does not mean they help you see better. Nor does having a higher "temperature" mean that they output more light or help you see better.

You mention that your Liberty does a better job. That is not because of the type of bulbs it uses, but rather because it has a better headlight design. The reflectors are better built to cast the light where it needs to go. Many Fords do not have the best headlights. But changing bulbs will not make a great difference. It takes a better reflector design to do that.

If you read the articles, they explain that sometimes what seems brighter to us is more about where the light shines and what color it appears to be. You Liberty probably casts more light up close near the vehicle, which gives a sense of security. But it compromises you ability to see at a distance, which is more important if you are going at any speed. You need to be able to see what's out there. You Jeep takes into account that it is an offroad, or at least appears to be an offroad, vehicle and that being able to see where you are is important, so it casts more forground light that it might otherwise. But its reflector has been carefully designed to do so in a way that is safe.

If the article gave the impression that the best bulbs are the stock ones, that is largely true. If your vehicle uses halogens from the factory, then halogens are the best to use. This doesn't mean the OE halogens are the best. I use Sylvania Xtravision myself. These are just brighter versions of stock bulbs. They are not tinted, or anything special. They have the normal halogen spectrum, but are just brighter overall. In order to get the most from this type of bulb, you will also need a new harness. The stock wiring and switches can't carry enough current to give you the best output.

 

I have a 2008 F350 6.4L

Anyone Tried these? They are Real 35w projector HID's for 2008-2009 Ford Superduty's. They are a complete drop in Replacement housing for the Stock lights. They also include CCFL Halo's. I would like to use some 4200K HID's if available. I'm wondering about the dispersion pattern, fit finish and overall looks. I you've seen a review of them please post the link. Thanks...


HID 08+ FORD F250 F350 F450 SUPER DUTY CCFL HEADLIGHTS:eBay Motors (item 150341141376 end time May-23-09 14:36:43 PDT)

 

I really have to disagree with you here on a couple of points. While you are right that the exposures aren't locked between the two samples, I really don't think you can make the claim that the halogen lights are in fact somehow brighter than the HID's, and that the HID lighting is completely unsafe to use.

Furthermore, and I have read Sterns website previously, I do agree that because of the difference in the positioning of the light source in the bulb and the intensity zones, there SHOULD be differences in the light housing design between the HID and Halogen bulbs. However, do I at all believe that there is even this much engineering in the factory bulbs with the factory housings to reduce glare and provide safe, directed, accurate and efficient lighting. Absolutely NOT. Nor do I believe as some (perhaps not you) do that the only acceptable HID housing is a projector style lens.

Why? For the very reason that Stern himself lists on his sight, the DOT regulations don't allow it and it is a well known fact that US Code automotive lamps in essence REQUIRE an unacceptable amount of glare.

Do I believe that many factory US Code HID housings do a better job of projecting HID lighting than retrofit kits? YES, it is far more critical with the brighter bulb to reduce the amount of incidental glare that is allowed and accepted on the Halogen housings. In fact, I believe that somehow, and I have not the knowledge or attempted the research to know why, manufacturers are allowed to design the HID lamps more similarly to the E-code standards which just simply results in a better lamp. This is purely my observation and speculation however.

Just as you are arguing that the HID's are unsafe, you could technically argue that the Hella H4 ecode sealed beam housings I ran on several of my trucks years ago are unsafe and illegal because they didn't conform to us regulations, or because their sharp cutoff limited my sight distance, or because they were equipped with 80/100 watt bulbs. I could care less because i actually saw where i was going much better. It put the maximum amount of light where I needed to see and sharply terminated that light to avoid any glare to oncoming drivers when aimed correctly. So while beyond that cutoff it was dark, inside that cutoff it was very bright and it was a brightness zone that was much larger than the US code sealed beams provided. I felt perfectly safe and justified running brighter, higher wattage bulbs because they did not exhibit any of the glare the "legal" headlights allowed. So I saw further down the road, better because of less light lost to glare and areas I wasn't looking, and felt safer and more responsible by limiting the glare to oncoming drivers.

Similarly, I feel these regulations that in part responsible for the "unsafe" projection of the HID lighting.

More so, the HB1/9004 to HID comparison is a worst case scenario. It is easy to understand from all the data that the DOT collected on that study that it is an un acceptable solution.

WHY? Because an HB1 bulb is a vertical filament, the HID capsule arc is horizontal. On the 9007 setup as seen on the superduties, and I believe the 9008/H13 bulb the filament is horizontal and is not that dissimilar to the positioning of the arc in the HID bulb.

In fact, while I don't have access to the very fancy equipment the DOT used as seen on Sterns website, I do have some more scientific information to backup my beliefs. On a Hoppy headlight aimer, I positioned my truck and observed the beam patterns between the stock halogen bulb and the HID conversion bulb I am currently running. The patterns were very similar, much better than the comparison show on the DOT/Stern HB1/HID example. I had a moderate amount of reaiming between the two bulbs, but it is to be expected even when changing out a halogen capsule with another halogen capsule because of tolerances in manufacturing. Additionally, the HID bulb, which is a 10k rated bulb (shame on me), output approx 25,000 lumens while the halogen bulb output 10,000 lumens. Definitely more light, but perhaps poorer quality because of the color temp.

So while you claim that in the above pictures the light is scattered, and it is easy to see on Sterns site that can be the case in that instance, it is to the most extent on the Superduty headlight, BY DESIGN and REGULATION. It is my believe that any brighter light source could cause a similar effect!

To conceded however, I believe that there are light housings and bulb types that will exhibit larger differences between the two bulb types, just as seen on the HB1/HID comparison. Yet, these differences can also be noticed on different housings between different designs within the use of a halogen bulb, just as many claim that the 2005 and up lights are better than the older ones, and a different manufacturer all together may have more acceptable lighting than another. It is just better design, perhaps even pushing the limits of the lighting regulations. But, these lights that seem to have better HALOGEN illumination, also seem to offer better HID illumination.

*on edit I see you address this in response to the lighting on the Liberty. As such, what are we to do about poor housing design? Changing the bulb is far more acceptable than trying to custom design a housing, and many of us using such bulbs feel there are acceptable compromises to improving our nighttime vision. I don't want to mount a light bar to add aftermarket driving lamps to use with or even in place of my factory headlamps. In fact, doing so could open up a whole different discussion on road lighting safety.

It's all food for thought, but there is a bigger problem than the use of HID capsules in a Halogen housing. If the housing was proper to begin with, maybe we wouldn't feel compelled to improve them.

 

I am not arguing that HIDs are unsafe. I am arguing that higher temperature light can be unsafe. More light output is a good thing, and I agree, some of DOTs regs are rediculous to the point that they do prohibit good designs. I agree, if some of our vehicle had better housings, then things would be different. HIDs are not really the solution however. Certainly not in vehicles that are not intended to use them. Some do talk about replacements that provide the reflector or projector. Those are definitely better than dropping an HID bulb into a halogen housing. However, even there you run into issues that need to be considered. Many of these housings are designed for say BMW or Mercedes models, and are factoring in a certain ride height and such. Since a truck rides much higher than say a BMW 3 series, you end up with a light that shines over the road and right into the mirrors of the guy in front of you. Doesn't help you see better, the other guy doesn't appreciate it, and you spent a lot of money doing it.

I'm not trying to say I think HIDs are bad. But what seems to make people think it is brighter is the color of the light and where it shines. If you get more forground light, it gives the impression that you can see better. But a simple fact is that the brighter foreground light does cause our eyes to adjust, cutting back the amount of light that enters our eyes. This impairs our ability to see that actually out there.

Before you judge me to much on this, remember I drive a Ford Aerostar. I know what bad headlights are about. The Aerostar headlight design looks like it was slapped together at the last minute. The beam pattern is terrible, arguably much worse than your truck. Despite that, I found that by using a brighter halogen bulb, aiming them properly (no they are not aimed correctly from the factory), and using a wiring harness to get more juice to the bulbs, that I was able to dramatically improve the output of the headlights. And this did cost much less than an HID kit. I still have functional high beams, which you often have to sacrifice with HIDs. When I drive on long stretches of highway I can see road signs a good three quarters of a mile away light up from my headlights. Even though the light does seem to just disappear out there somewhere, I can see things I need to see. Animal eyes show up very well, even in areas that do not seem illuminated.

BTW, if a higher temp light output was really better, or a "natural sunlight", etc. Why do they offer HIDs with a cooler color temperature close to that of halogens? The fullness of the spectrum especially in the reds, yellows, oranges, and greens is just as important as the brightness.

Remember when compact flourescent bulbs first came out. They appeared to be bright too(and they are), but it was often difficult to see things that would not be a problem for a dim incandescent. It was often difficult or impossible to distinguish some colors. This was because CF bulbs at the time had poor spectrum output. With time they fortunately improved. But the newer bulbs aren't brighter than the old ones. The just have a "warmer" spectrum to produce natural tones.

 

Great points. I do agree 100% that the higher color temp is often misinterpreted as better or in some instances as being brighter. I personally would want ones that are closer to 5 or 6k, for whatever reason I haven't gotten them.

 

I think 90% of the folks that get the high color temperature are just doing it for looks and could care less about the true details of the light.