Lowered 4x4 pic
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,808
Likes: 2,604
From: The Shenandoah Valley
Originally Posted by tylus
a 4x4 truck comes from the factory with a 1 5/8" block that is commonly referred to as 2". to achieve a 2/4 drop, most lift kits use the following method.
Front
utilize 4x2 front shocks. these have the coil perch which is 1" shorter than a 4x4 front shock
use drop springs that are 1" shorter than the OEM spring that both 4x2 and 4x4 share.
this gives you 2" of drop
now, a 4x2 and 4x4 have the exact same amount of up/down articulation. they share all the same components except the shock itself and rotor.
if anything, a 4x4 has less articulation than a 4x2. this is because the shock pushes the lower control arm downward 1" farther. very similar to the install of a leveling kit. you gain height, but lose downward travel
Rear
remove the 1 5/8" block and install 2" drop shackles.
this gives you the total of 4" drop out back.
now, 4x2 and 4x4 have the exact same leaf springs. and they even have the exact same diameter tires.
you can remove the 4x4 block and not affect rear articulation at all...zero affect. it's merely there for looks. still the same spacing between the bumpstop and the leafs
so if you install the drop shackles, you are only removing 2" of articulation...and that is a maybe. I beat the crap out of my truck and it almost never hit the bumpstops. it did happen on occasion, but only in the extreme twisty stuff
Front
utilize 4x2 front shocks. these have the coil perch which is 1" shorter than a 4x4 front shock
use drop springs that are 1" shorter than the OEM spring that both 4x2 and 4x4 share.
this gives you 2" of drop
now, a 4x2 and 4x4 have the exact same amount of up/down articulation. they share all the same components except the shock itself and rotor.
if anything, a 4x4 has less articulation than a 4x2. this is because the shock pushes the lower control arm downward 1" farther. very similar to the install of a leveling kit. you gain height, but lose downward travel
Rear
remove the 1 5/8" block and install 2" drop shackles.
this gives you the total of 4" drop out back.
now, 4x2 and 4x4 have the exact same leaf springs. and they even have the exact same diameter tires.
you can remove the 4x4 block and not affect rear articulation at all...zero affect. it's merely there for looks. still the same spacing between the bumpstop and the leafs
so if you install the drop shackles, you are only removing 2" of articulation...and that is a maybe. I beat the crap out of my truck and it almost never hit the bumpstops. it did happen on occasion, but only in the extreme twisty stuff
I don't know if I'll actually lower my FX4 Scab Flareside that much, but it'ld look pretty decent if I did.
Anyway .... too cold just now.
Originally Posted by tylus
to everyone else: sorry I rose to the bait. but hopefully if anybody has questions about doing something similar to what the OP did, it can help you out
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Joined: Jan 2010
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Surprised me that "bait" showed up in the first place ... I mean, it's not like a lowered F150 4X4 moved in next door and changed his truck's value.
Talk truck.
My trucks value isnt measured in dollars, nor is it a sign I wear that says "look at me"
But unfortunately I have to share a world in which there are people who live to be seen and waste a lot of money doing it.
So heres my original post in reaction to the lowering of a 4x4
"To each his own" I guess, but to me looks will never be more important than function, and basically you not only flushed your money down the toilet spending it on 23 inch "look at me" wheels that will never touch mud, and the worthless tires and the hug-job too... you could have traded the 4x4 in for a newer 2WD and pimped out a road machine that may have increased the resale value instead of basically making the 4x4 components on this rig worthless.
Now you have to drag all those 4x4 components you'll never use around in your street-rod. But hey, it "looks" good right?
Now you have to drag all those 4x4 components you'll never use around in your street-rod. But hey, it "looks" good right?
I dont. But thats just how he rolls. Gotta have purpose in your life somewhere and this seems to be where Mr tylus the troll feeder finds his.
Looking back through the thread comments, I see tylus comments that he'd have gone the other way with a suspension mod... So am I not entitled to share an opinion too, just because I havnt wasted 5 years of my life online flappin my gums with 6000 posts to this board and established myself in a group of people that I dont know and will never meet?
Hell I'd rather be taking a nap than punching these keys trying to tell troll-feeder to step off his high horse.
I offered you an opinion that apparently only means something to people who dont give a rats *** what their truck looks like more than they care about function. But hey man, if you want 2 inches of fender gap up front, and 3 inches of fender gap in the back on a 4x4 with 23inch bling blang for all your ho's to admire (I'm being sarcastic) more power to ya homie. You posted the fact that youre considering it, can you handle the opinion of someone who thinks you shouldnt? Or would you just like only the people who are into looks and not function to chime in?
Go for it!
I'm sure I wont be the only one shaking my head when you drive by.
As for tylus, his reply to my above "opinion" was to welcome me to his little private ford board with
not sure what crack you are smoking ...but he didn't hurt his truck at all.
he lost at most, 2" of suspension travel.
he lost at most, 2" of suspension travel.
Thats exactly my point. LOST TRAVEL aka LOST FUNCTION aka spent money on components that do nothing to improve the 4X4 operation, just for it to "look" good.
and sure, those Saleens are going to make him think twice before playing around.
but at the end of the day, that truck is 95% as capable as any stock 4x4 from the factory
I'll concede even though the combination of the loss in suspension travel, the huge reduction of fender gap, and the rubber designed to grip bare pavement (and the stiffened suspension, wider rubber to feel every bug in the road, and inability to load anything into the back of that truck) is far more than a %5 loss of function compared to a stock truck, I cant help but make the point loud and clear that doing this to a 4X4 truck narrows your resale market down to only those people who care more about what a truck looks like. Because the intended function of 4 wheel drive has been pretty much negated on this truck.
tylus may have a little knowledge about changing a trucks appearance, but all the irrelevant number crunching and wind-bag rhetoric doesnt hold a candle to the Ford engineers who design 4X4 suspensions to perform at peak function.
The only purpose that 4 wheel drive might serve now is to mislead the driver into thinking it will make a difference on an icy road. Sorry, with those tires the only thing 4 wheel drive is going to do is send the front end of that truck right or left...not forward.
New wheels and tires, not lowered.
Lowered.
Now tell me, whats the difference between tylus' algebra and my observation when the suspension travel that matters the most is how much is left before those fenders start shredding those tires?
I'm not even going to approach tylus' tire diameter BS
05 stock tires = 275 was the largest.
Theres 304 in that hole now.
0.5 difference?
I dont think so.
Extreme reduction in function and market value, in exchange for "bling"
Your call. Your money. My humble opinion.
tylus. One more time. You want to talk ***** , face to face or nothing hoolee. Get some respect.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,808
Likes: 2,604
From: The Shenandoah Valley
As to the tire deal, you said:
Actually, he was right in regards to diameter, that 305/40-23 is a 40 series tire, side wall is only 40% of cross section, the 275/65-18 is a 65 series tire, taller sidewalls.
Math
1"=25.4mm
305 X 0.40=122.00 mm sidewalls X 2(top and bottum)= 244mm / 25.4 = 9.6 inches plus that 23 inch rim = 32.6 inch overall diameter.
275 X 0.65=178.75mm sidewalls X 2 = 357.5mm / 25.4 = 14.07 inches plus that 18 inch rim = 32.07 inch overall diameter.
Actually, if the tires are made exactly according to design spec ... your talking 0.53" difference ...
... however only 1/2 that is on either side of the center hole.
Or you could look up the same information on one of many online tire comparison charts like "this one".
Ha .... I just went there to "take a looksee", double check my math (yeah, it was right) , and I see that my truck's stock Perelli 275/55-20 s are 31.9 " OA Dia and that a 305/50-20 is wider, yet only 32.00" OA Dia. Looks like the perfect upgrade size for me someday? First though, I have the current tires, and a second set from Wichita to wear out.
And on front suspension travel, he lost 2 " compression, but he gained 2" in rebound or drop didn't he?
Ice / snow .... depends on the tire and it's rubber. Won't go in as deep of snow as a lifted truck with big snows on it, but in most of the stuff we've seen here in the last 40 years, it'll go. Just this Dec 18th I put chains on my "work car" (this one a '06 CVPI) for the first time since March '93, and then worked 44 hours in the big storm here over 3 days. Saw a lot of stuck vehicles, even a few overturned. Some 4X4s too. Ice ... not in my truck unless "LorD".
All that aside though .... I rather think it was the part ....
.... that came across as a bit crass or "too familiar" like in a new forum.
I see mods that I'm not gonna do to my truck either because they aren't needed, maybe interfear with my purpose, maybe just aren't my style ...
... but it doesn't keep me from appreciating the effort or thought that went into the mod that guy or gal did. Hell, they probably wouldn't like or care for some of my stuff (truck or otherwise) neither.
Sometimes, if a poster is in my state and is discussing something that my experience tells me is going to get him unwanted attention 'cause it's not exactly legal, yeah ... then I might say some little something ... which he is free to heed, or ignore. Might save him some cash, maybe just give some insight?
There are no posters here that won't attempt to help you when you have a need for input / advice / info. Take tylus ... whether he personally likes the mod / look ... or not ... he still tries to help one in doing the mod the right way if one exist. Any advice is worth at least what it cost you, sometimes even more.
They all are here just to "talk truck".
I'm not even going to approach tylus' tire diameter BS
05 stock tires = 275 was the largest.
Theres 304 in that hole now.
0.5 difference?
I dont think so.
05 stock tires = 275 was the largest.
Theres 304 in that hole now.
0.5 difference?
I dont think so.
Math
1"=25.4mm
305 X 0.40=122.00 mm sidewalls X 2(top and bottum)= 244mm / 25.4 = 9.6 inches plus that 23 inch rim = 32.6 inch overall diameter.
275 X 0.65=178.75mm sidewalls X 2 = 357.5mm / 25.4 = 14.07 inches plus that 18 inch rim = 32.07 inch overall diameter.
Actually, if the tires are made exactly according to design spec ... your talking 0.53" difference ...
... however only 1/2 that is on either side of the center hole.
Or you could look up the same information on one of many online tire comparison charts like "this one".
Ha .... I just went there to "take a looksee", double check my math (yeah, it was right) , and I see that my truck's stock Perelli 275/55-20 s are 31.9 " OA Dia and that a 305/50-20 is wider, yet only 32.00" OA Dia. Looks like the perfect upgrade size for me someday? First though, I have the current tires, and a second set from Wichita to wear out.
And on front suspension travel, he lost 2 " compression, but he gained 2" in rebound or drop didn't he?
Ice / snow .... depends on the tire and it's rubber. Won't go in as deep of snow as a lifted truck with big snows on it, but in most of the stuff we've seen here in the last 40 years, it'll go. Just this Dec 18th I put chains on my "work car" (this one a '06 CVPI) for the first time since March '93, and then worked 44 hours in the big storm here over 3 days. Saw a lot of stuck vehicles, even a few overturned. Some 4X4s too. Ice ... not in my truck unless "LorD".
All that aside though .... I rather think it was the part ....
23 inch "look at me" wheels that will never touch mud, and the worthless tires and the hug-job too... you could have traded the 4x4 in for a newer 2WD and pimped out a road machine that may have increased the resale value instead of basically making the 4x4 components on this rig worthless.
I see mods that I'm not gonna do to my truck either because they aren't needed, maybe interfear with my purpose, maybe just aren't my style ...
... but it doesn't keep me from appreciating the effort or thought that went into the mod that guy or gal did. Hell, they probably wouldn't like or care for some of my stuff (truck or otherwise) neither.
Sometimes, if a poster is in my state and is discussing something that my experience tells me is going to get him unwanted attention 'cause it's not exactly legal, yeah ... then I might say some little something ... which he is free to heed, or ignore. Might save him some cash, maybe just give some insight?
There are no posters here that won't attempt to help you when you have a need for input / advice / info. Take tylus ... whether he personally likes the mod / look ... or not ... he still tries to help one in doing the mod the right way if one exist. Any advice is worth at least what it cost you, sometimes even more.
They all are here just to "talk truck".
Sick 'n Tired
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,969
Likes: 47
From: League City, TX
We've got a nice, family friendly forum here that doesn't tolerate abusive language or disrespectful posts. There are other "Truck Talk" forums on the web that cater to enthusiasts who prefer to argue then engage in a respectful dialogue. Maybe this forum just isn't for Mr. Davis and he should move on.
MMNC (SS)(Ret)
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 11,606
Likes: 149
From: SE Georgia
for DDavisJ66
I appologize for the "crack" comment. Your hostile anti-bling posts annoyed me and I typed before I thought it out. But two of your comments are specifically bothering me right now, and I will address them real quick.
1. I've been a member of FTE since 2002. Unfortunately I lost that membership when I deployed back in 2003. So when I rejoined FTE, I got a 2004 membership. I happen to have a passion for vehicles. My posts here on FTE are almost 100% in the truck forums. not the general discussion areas. Sorry I'm a fan of Ford. FYI, I'm also pretty handy around a 2007-2010 Expedition, a 1992-1996 F-150/Bronco, and a 1996-2009 Mustang. Seems that I learn whatever I can about the vehicles I own.
2. With regards to what I said:
Heck, I even tried steering him towards the FX2 valance chin...which btw looks badass on lowered/4x2 trucks. Sort of a way to complete the look
vice you. exceptionally rude, and lambasted him & his truck for no good reason. it took you several different insults to tell him so. uncalled for and totally out of line with how the majority of people on FTE act
and finally
the proper spelling you are looking for would be "HAOLE". Means white guy...American/European...or litterally "those without breath". which references the first white visitors to Hawaii who didn't partake in the traditional hawaiin greeting.
if you are going to be racist, at least spell it correctly. the effect is spoiled when the person throwing the insults just looks stupid in the attempt
Wiki Entry for Haole
have a good night y'all. good old southern Haole saying goodnight from the Pacific
I could tear apart your posts #30 & #32. You again show you have no concept of the suspension on the 2004-2010 F-150. Or basically any other truck.
And your tire comment is priceless. But tbear went above and beyond explaining your little conceptual error.
And your tire comment is priceless. But tbear went above and beyond explaining your little conceptual error.
I appologize for the "crack" comment. Your hostile anti-bling posts annoyed me and I typed before I thought it out. But two of your comments are specifically bothering me right now, and I will address them real quick.
Looking back through the thread comments, I see tylus comments that he'd have gone the other way with a suspension mod... So am I not entitled to share an opinion too, just because I havnt wasted 5 years of my life online flappin my gums with 6000 posts to this board and established myself in a group of people that I dont know and will never meet?
Hell I'd rather be taking a nap than punching these keys trying to tell troll-feeder to step off his high horse.
Hell I'd rather be taking a nap than punching these keys trying to tell troll-feeder to step off his high horse.
2. With regards to what I said:
aka...I'm not exactly a fan of a lowered 4x4, but it doesn't look bad either. In general a 4x2=low and 4x4=high for me. But you won't find me blasting somebody for modding their truck. Especially when he did a great job and obviously put alot of thought and effort into it.
Heck, I even tried steering him towards the FX2 valance chin...which btw looks badass on lowered/4x2 trucks. Sort of a way to complete the look
vice you. exceptionally rude, and lambasted him & his truck for no good reason. it took you several different insults to tell him so. uncalled for and totally out of line with how the majority of people on FTE act
and finally
if you are going to be racist, at least spell it correctly. the effect is spoiled when the person throwing the insults just looks stupid in the attempt
Wiki Entry for Haole
have a good night y'all. good old southern Haole saying goodnight from the Pacific
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