Will check local airport soon and begin search for saddle tanks. Any idea what I should expect to pay for a salvaged one/new one? I have a flat aluminum trailer that I can mount 3-4 of them on.

 

Hanklin, just be careful how much you haul. Jet-A is a flammable Liquid, a Class 3 Hazardous Material (UN1863), and anything over 110 gallons is considered a "placard quantity" to DOT and requires a placarded vehicle and Hazardous materials endorsement, as well as appropriate fuel-rated transport containers, and Calif. is EXTREMELY strict about that.

And let me be the first to say, CALtrans and CHP just LOVE large quantities of unmarked containers on a trailer. It's like a flag hanging there saying "pull me over and check me"...and just because you have two 55 gallon drums but they are only half full...doesn't count...they look at the container capacity. ask me how I know this

All I am saying is just be aware. as long as you limit your quantity to less than 100gallons, you should be OK. If you want to haul more, be cautious.

I Just happen to be a truck driver that deals with this regularly...and the airport I work at...I transport their fuel...

personally I use 4 baby-drums...the kind you usually get bulk grease/oil in...i think they are 22 gallons or something. its right under the limit.

Also something to know is don't transport Jet A, A-1, JP8 or whatever type of fuel in a "company truck" or any vehicle with a company name on it. because while 110 gallons is the placard quantity, Class 3 Haz. Mat. is a "reportable quantity' in any amount, and if you are caught with it in a company vehicle, and have not shipping papers for it, you're busted. Got first hand experience here, too!

Don't let this deter you, Jet-A is an awesome source of alternative fuel for your diesel, just be aware and cautious when hauling it. I am just trying to help inform.

I got dinged hard, and I knew better..but I figured "oh, its my personal vehicle, on a side road, no problem, what are the chances?" yea...

 

To start with...get a good attorney.

To start with, when you collect, store any product that is combustible, flammable or poses a potential environmental effect in quantities of 30 gallons or more, you are required to have a secondary containment system, spill control and a permit, issued by local, state or federal epa or public health agency (local). This is required under both the CERCLA, the international fire code (adopted by local and state agencies) Article 79 and 80, and permit is required by Article 4.

You must also ....a permit is also required for any mixing, dispensing and requires the drum, etc all have static safeguards including bonding & grounding- same codes referenced. These same codes also require you to have Class I, division 1 or 2 electrical wiring for any inside mixing, storage and dispensing. As you pour one liquid into another container, you are creating “static charge” by the mere action of the liquid. Without proper, verified bonding & grounding, the re-routing/reverse of a single static charge will result in a fire or explosion (if it reaches a container)- this evens happens in car when doe to a design flaw (such as in the 1990’s) when GM experienced 2 fuel tank fires in their 2 newest “high mpg” cars because a single static charge was generated during re-fueling, the charge exited the vehicle tank but the newly designed low resistance tires prohibited the charge from “finding the ground” and returned to the vehicles fuel tank. Back in the 70’s (IIRR), the USAF also experience this with a 747 in Texas, causing a fire in one fuel tank and explosion in the center fuel tank which was almost empty.

It is illegal (felony) for anyone to sell the products to you without a business license and other permits- including for transportation (under the Federal code of regulation, part 40 & 49). if you are reported by anyone, they will receive a 10% reward from the national "We-Tip" program- the average (total collected fine and investigation) fine for a "small business" is $1 million dollars, the average clean-up including disposal, assessment and temp permits is $2 million...and this can be instituted by any environmental, public health, fire department, law enforcement agency, district attorney and any local, state or federal agency.

 

You're the kind of person that would take everybody's car keys when inviting friends over for a kegger.

 

Basically took all the fun & glory out of it. I dont want little Hanklin bits spread all over the front lawn.

 

If ti keeps someone safe, yeah, I plead guilty. Just trying to keep people from getting killed because they are unaware of the inherient hazards- when you see a child, who has a piece of metal from a 55 gallon metal drum stuck in their chest (like a piece of schrapnel) several football stadiums away, from somebody's home garage, and the guardians (parents) holding their lifeless/limp child in their arms, it says more than anything i can possibly say.

In the early 90's, I was at a shooting that occurred at a shopping mall in california, it made national news, two guys were going to commit an armed robbery, law enforcement saw them and engaged....a bloody shoot-out occurred, afterwards...
a very good professional friend of mine was managing the people inside the large chain grocery store....hysteria was the understatement, I had the opposite side of the mall, I had to persoanlly sit down in a booth at a fast food restaurant, next to a man who had been shot in the head, as his wife & 2 children sat across from me, asking them to please go with the paramedics for assessment while we help your husband.....
Unfortuntely I have seen this same scenario played out too many times as a result of unsafe welding, improper storage/dispensing of flammable liquids (including diesel fuel)........heck I even saw a man and his son get 3rd degree burns while refueling their motorhome......a fuel tank (LPG) explosion as a result of static charge (and a poor bonding/grounding system).while the actions may be very different, the results are just as catestrophic, where typically, the casualities include family members, neighbors, children, sometimes miles away.

 

Fret not... I'm all the way in your camp on this. I don't want to see anybody get in trouble with the law or hurt in any way. I'm a safety nut for myriad reasons, with one of the primary reasons being I don't want the feeling of knowing I could have done something to prevent an incident and didn't.

 

Subscription bump

 

Alright I was cruising right along getting more and more excited and then the "get an Attorney" thread popped up. So now I am not sure...does this apply to keeping small quatities for perosonal use or are quantities under a certain amount classified like a lawn mower gas can in your garage. with over 20 years in aviation, I am very familar with JP-4, 5, and 8 and understand the dangers and would want to do everything to mitigate that danger. So the root question is, do all the regulation make it unrealistic to cost effectivly and safely run Jet fuel in our trucks...? oh yea...subscribing

 

I'm still blowin' snot bubbles over here because I'm already breakin' the law in my garage. I have 20 gallons of diesel and 15 gallons of gas in 5 gallon cans. I don't have double-containment for my 35 gallons of stored fuel. I guess I'd better put one in the truck, so it's not all in the same place {wink}.

Some airports are configured to sell avgas for sparkies, maybe some are configured to sell jet fuel to smokies. Basically, if there isn't a pump in the public area with a "Pay Here" sign, how would you hope to get fuel behind a "Keep Out" sign?

 

Plenty of trucks have in-bed tank and pump arrangements for fuelling equipment in the field.

If I had a steady supply of fuel I'd come up with an 18-wheeler saddle tank on a skid, fab some quick-detach mounts so I could remove it from my bed, and have at it. I'd make an off-road fuel trailer for storage at home and fill that.

When dispensing fuel into aircraft, it's standard to ground them to an earth ground and the dispensing vehicle. If you do any such pumping, grounding isn't rocket science.

ESD Grounding Clamps, ESD Bonding Clamps | Ground Zero Electrostatics

I'm in a rural area in a non-"Eco ****" State so no worries. Jet fuel is considerably safer to handle than gasoline. Know and take proper precautions.

 

You can store up to 10 gallons of fuel for maintenance purposes at any type of occupancy. There are different storage requirements for different type occupancies when you exceed 10 gallons.

The 2nd question about running jet fuel in your trucks, well, gasoline engines won't like that at all, mixed with diesel, it might run to a certain degree, but it really boils down to this, no one is going to have a "coronary" over a few gallons of fuel (diesel, bio or otherwise), when you start storing in excess, manufacture (by mixing, dispensing or storing), you are in trouble, by local, state or federal agencies.............
Every state that I know of has very stright forward laws regarding this, and in summary, to not have a permit= $10k fine minimum, failure to report or falsifying report of activity $100,000 & 6 months in jail plus the cost of all investigation and legal proceedings, if someone gets injuried (such as a child who picks up a discarded glove that has residual fuel on it), the mother gets upset and calls any authority.......$250,000 and 1 year in state penn.

 

It's also technically illegal to gut catalytic converters, drive 1 MPH over the speed limit, and jaywalk, which is why I never do those things.

 

Just one more fyi............
If any law enforcement officer (that includes USDA & Fish & Game staff) saw a flatbed trailer with tanks as you reference either temp or permenently mounted, the trailer would be impounded and the fines would easily total up $1 million without hesitation- required manufactuere permits, inspections & certifications are absent.

The second thing about the airport, I dealt with a similar issue in a municipal airport in a small town- long story short, as part of a state/federal task force we arrived as a result of a "hotline" notification that a private pilot had obtained an actual MC403 tanker (regular motor carrier tank trailer), which was parked at the rear of his business (flight school) at the airport. We nailed the airport staff for fueling the tanker, because the fuel was Chevron brand, under the Federal law (RCRA), they are responsible for every drop of the fuel from the time it is produced until it is a waste product & 30 years after, Chevron had a choice of either re-claiming their product or we would impound the trailer & contents and fine Chevron, the airport and the gent whose possession it was in...................Chevron & the previous tanker owner agreed a "Reclaimed their product".....and this airport as I said was a very, very small municipal airport in a very, very small town typically used by crop dusters.

The airport staff themselves could see real trouble from the FAA just for allowing such a vehicle on airport property........because, you see, all airports (even private) are required to comply with all federal regulations........

An actual release of product doesnot even have to occur, it is based upon total capacity not actual capacity....so if you have 500 gallon tank with 5 gallons of product inside, yourfines & criminal assessments would still be based upon the 500 gallon capacity.
I know that's not what you want to hear, but the truth.

 

No worries Beechkid.
Sounded good from the get go but once all the facts & troubles come in I think it best to just go pay for fuel like everyone else. Thats what I like about this place (fte) is all the peeps who know and contribute, like yourself.