Clutch trouble?
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,402
Likes: 10
When I saw that there was a new post I really hoped it was going to be good news but there you go.
You are right, with the bleed screw open the clutch pressure plate fingers would push the slave cylinder back and the fluid with it. The clutch fingers exert some serious force so, with the fluid line open at the bleed screw, the only thing that could stop the fingers coming fully back is the slave cylinder has bottomed out. This would mean that only a part of the pressure plate spring pressure was pressing the friction disc against the flywheel and so causing it to slip.
I have put a lot of clutches in in my day but never came across anything like this.
I`ve done clutches on my own, lifting the trans up from below and I know it is not easy but were you able to slide the trans right up by hand or did you need to pull it the last half inch or so with bolts?
You are right, with the bleed screw open the clutch pressure plate fingers would push the slave cylinder back and the fluid with it. The clutch fingers exert some serious force so, with the fluid line open at the bleed screw, the only thing that could stop the fingers coming fully back is the slave cylinder has bottomed out. This would mean that only a part of the pressure plate spring pressure was pressing the friction disc against the flywheel and so causing it to slip.
I have put a lot of clutches in in my day but never came across anything like this.
I`ve done clutches on my own, lifting the trans up from below and I know it is not easy but were you able to slide the trans right up by hand or did you need to pull it the last half inch or so with bolts?
Methanoholic
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,442
Likes: 8
From: Maine (NorCal Native)
I would have to say there is something amiss with the slave, It's not all the way on or is not retracting all the way... If you loosen the bleeder it should fully engage the clutch, if not then it's not releasing or the pressure plate is wrong.
I know it's a lot of work to try this, but I would pull the trans. remove the slave, and reinstall the trans. without the slave for a test, if the clutch now engages then you will know it's the slave and not the pressure plate.
-Enjoy
fh : )_~
I know it's a lot of work to try this, but I would pull the trans. remove the slave, and reinstall the trans. without the slave for a test, if the clutch now engages then you will know it's the slave and not the pressure plate.
-Enjoy
fh : )_~
Thread Starter
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Junior User
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
From: Archdale NC
Sorry lazyk..but now I was just cutting daddys grass with his mower, cut it off and it won't crank! My step momma said not to touch it!
But I guess I'll have to just tear it apart again...oh, and everytime I've had it out I've had to draw it back in with the bolts...probably a half inch or so, or more. But at least I learned of a design flaw with these things being so hard to bleed...
Festus: It sure looks like the clutch is already engaged with the tranny out..the fingers are out on the new plate just as much as on the one in the bed of the truck, maybe a fractions difference with the bolts tight. I've put in enough clutches in my time, just my first hydraulic.
But I guess I'll have to just tear it apart again...oh, and everytime I've had it out I've had to draw it back in with the bolts...probably a half inch or so, or more. But at least I learned of a design flaw with these things being so hard to bleed...
Festus: It sure looks like the clutch is already engaged with the tranny out..the fingers are out on the new plate just as much as on the one in the bed of the truck, maybe a fractions difference with the bolts tight. I've put in enough clutches in my time, just my first hydraulic.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,402
Likes: 10
I would have to say there is something amiss with the slave, It's not all the way on or is not retracting all the way... If you loosen the bleeder it should fully engage the clutch, if not then it's not releasing or the pressure plate is wrong.
I know it's a lot of work to try this, but I would pull the trans. remove the slave, and reinstall the trans. without the slave for a test, if the clutch now engages then you will know it's the slave and not the pressure plate.
-Enjoy
fh : )_~
I know it's a lot of work to try this, but I would pull the trans. remove the slave, and reinstall the trans. without the slave for a test, if the clutch now engages then you will know it's the slave and not the pressure plate.
-Enjoy
fh : )_~
It might be well worth considering.
Thread Starter
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Junior User
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
From: Archdale NC
Sheeesh, you guys are tryin to work me to death...heh heh..is a good idea, but then I have to push it off the ramps, and get it back up somehow..no jack stands. maybe I could take the drive out, hook it back to the master cylinder and check it that way. See how much travel it has..after bleeding of course.
Methanoholic
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,442
Likes: 8
From: Maine (NorCal Native)
Whoa here a minute....
You said:
There points out your issue! You do have a throwout issue!
That I am certain of now.
Never pull a transmission together with the bolts, if it does not go all the way freely then something is wrong!
-Enjoy
fh : )_~
You said:
That I am certain of now.
Never pull a transmission together with the bolts, if it does not go all the way freely then something is wrong!
-Enjoy
fh : )_~
Thread Starter
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Junior User
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
From: Archdale NC
Ok, but I've had it go both ways on different vehicles and never had any problems..but you are probably right. the drive is still too far out thus the bearing is making contact, or that "new" design bearing is messing the whole works up...I'll know by Monday..gonna leave it alone till then...fore' I get mad and find daddys shotgun...
thanks again..I'll let yuns know what gives..
thanks again..I'll let yuns know what gives..
Methanoholic
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,442
Likes: 8
From: Maine (NorCal Native)
FACTS are if you have to pull the trans. up with bolts something is wrong!
Maybe you have gotten away with it before, but there was something wrong!
It could be as little as alignment dowels to tight/dirty, disk misalignment etc... but there was something wrong!
You do that with an automatic and you'll likely be spending money on a new pump!
-Enjoy
fh : )_~
Maybe you have gotten away with it before, but there was something wrong!
It could be as little as alignment dowels to tight/dirty, disk misalignment etc... but there was something wrong!
You do that with an automatic and you'll likely be spending money on a new pump!
-Enjoy
fh : )_~
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Thread Starter
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Junior User
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
From: Archdale NC
Oh, never on an automatic..done a few of them too in my years... I just figured a couple of times thing just still be a hair out of line and wouldn't let me push it on up...but then I was younger, and dumber as BH says!!
Methanoholic
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,442
Likes: 8
From: Maine (NorCal Native)
I'll bet if you loosen your trans up to the point before you start to pull it together, your clutch will work... You should be able to try that, just don't drive it, just test!
You are actually releasing the clutch by pulling it together, the throwout is to long or not fully seated or something like that.
-Enjoy
fh : )_~
You are actually releasing the clutch by pulling it together, the throwout is to long or not fully seated or something like that.
-Enjoy
fh : )_~
Senior User
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 435
Likes: 0
From: Brunswick, Maryland
I just read through all of the posts and problems you're having with you clutch. I have just one question. When you have everything apart have you just tried to slide the clutch disc on to the transmission shaft to see that it is fitting the splines correctly?
Thread Starter
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Junior User
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
From: Archdale NC
Actually I did, just to have a place clean to put it for a few...
Didn't mess with it today, rain this morning and folks kept me busy most of the rest of the day. Dads wantin me to go fishing tomorrow since we didn't get to go today...he's got it worse than me.
I figure Wed I'll have it tore back apart and will enlighten all to what I find....or don't find...
Didn't mess with it today, rain this morning and folks kept me busy most of the rest of the day. Dads wantin me to go fishing tomorrow since we didn't get to go today...he's got it worse than me.
I figure Wed I'll have it tore back apart and will enlighten all to what I find....or don't find...
Thread Starter
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Junior User
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
From: Archdale NC
Hey Folks,
Got it tore apart again, and may have to kick myself..or blame it on never having done this before...
I have the slave cylinder out, when removing it what looks like a thick metal ring slid off over the shaft part that the relasese bearing rides on. I thought it was part of the slave piston...could it have been the third part of the old type release bearing? I'm going to hook up the slave to the master and see how it works, but just trying to save a trip to the parts store.
Got it tore apart again, and may have to kick myself..or blame it on never having done this before...
I have the slave cylinder out, when removing it what looks like a thick metal ring slid off over the shaft part that the relasese bearing rides on. I thought it was part of the slave piston...could it have been the third part of the old type release bearing? I'm going to hook up the slave to the master and see how it works, but just trying to save a trip to the parts store.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 8,402
Likes: 10
Glad to hear you haven`t given up on it.
You may well have found the problem. However before you throw it all together do a bit of measuring. Measure the thickness of the old release bearing, including that thick washer. Now measure the thickness of the new bearing without that washer. They should be roughly the same.
If all else fails you may have to measure the distance of the clutch throwout fingers from the bellhousing mounting face on the engine and then measure the distance of the release bearing face (slave cylinder pushed fully back in) from the bellhousing face. The last one should be greater than the first one (only slightly).
Keep us posted.
You may well have found the problem. However before you throw it all together do a bit of measuring. Measure the thickness of the old release bearing, including that thick washer. Now measure the thickness of the new bearing without that washer. They should be roughly the same.
If all else fails you may have to measure the distance of the clutch throwout fingers from the bellhousing mounting face on the engine and then measure the distance of the release bearing face (slave cylinder pushed fully back in) from the bellhousing face. The last one should be greater than the first one (only slightly).
Keep us posted.