High HP 7.3 is soooo expensive. It cannot handle the rodeo burger and even with serious $$$ thrown into the engine, it was never made for that and I think will live a limited life. That is my opinion.

My other problem is the daily driver question. It is hard to have a 600hp plus engine that will have good daily driver manors even with tunes. I think 500 might be the limit where it no longer is a useful daily driver that can haul and work. This is because of the air flow that is required.

That is the problem with the mechanical Cummins. Capable of far more than the common rail, but becomes less a DD. The common rails are capable of big #s, but begin to run into the same problem the HEUI does. They just are able to do it with the flip of a switch and still maintain some semblance of a daily driver.

So that background is laid. Someone school me how we can get better.

 

Bingo, even if you got all the machining done; you would still need a way to get the injectors to spray when they need too. All the common rail is a pressurized fuel line or rail in which all the injectors draw from. The pump requires no mechanical "timing" with the rest of the motor, it's only job is to keep the rail pressurized. It's the job of a computer to tell the injectors to do their thing.

I guess if you got someone who was wicked smart with electronics you could have them install a crank or cam positioning sensor and write a program when to fire the injectors at a specific RPM.

 

OK, so BD started this one and went to bed.

 

Wouldnt you be able to somehow hook into the IDM for firing the injector? After all, its what fires them right now and I'm gonna guess that there's some way it could be modified to fire the injectors on a CR engine (this is assuming the injectors fire via electronic signals).

 

I'm pretty sure something could be done prototype-wise on a PC to get started. What is pricey is getting that dumped into a dedicated control module. I know only enough to be dangerous regarding the HW & SW required to monitor and react based on programming to sensor inputs. Not knowing a lot about the intricacies of what it takes now to do it, I would think that only a few very key inputs would be required to prototype it, then add refinements based on any other sensors needed. For example, look at that new gauge system that came out. It's just a series of several inputs that some type of processor monitors then spits out data on a common bus to the "gauges". It would be VERY similar to do the same thing for something like this (the inputs), only use a PC as the "Gauge" and add a pedal sensor input to control fueling (outputs) based on those parameters. I could probably draw up a block diagram (say, a 10,000 foot view) of something in a short time with some help from someone with more knowledge of the dirty details of the 7.3.

So the next question I have is that do you use the existing fuel or oil rails as the common HP fuel rail, or run your own external custom rail?

EDIT: So we know we would need to monitor the CPS, MAP, & TPS as bare-bones to make a decision on how much fuel to put into the engine, and at what time, right? I mean, obviously there are a bunch of other things needed to refine it and do it safely to protect the engine (oil pressure, coolant temp, EGT, etc.), but what do we need to actually START an engine and make it run? All we need to know is where the cam is for timing, how much air is available, then how much more fuel to add based on the pedal (which could be virtual on a screen at first). I've been wanting to learn how to tune, and have already put some thought into the basics.

 

I love my 7.3 PSD but at what point do you say "enough is enough"? To paraphrase/quote Jeremy "If I knew then what I know now I would have done the CR conversion long ago" That's not perfect but close enough I hope. His total expenditure was ~$10,000 and now has more power, better pickup, and better mileage too!



Mine too. Sure, Kris may have enough fuel for 900+ HP.... but there's this old saying "Power without control is worthless". 90%+ of us drive our trucks daily, or close to it. Sure, Double Overtime is a beast. Who wants to drive that REGULARLY for chores, to the movies, around town.... maybe for a week or two, but then it'd get old. No thanks.


Even if I hit some giant lottery, I'd be smart with my money and follow Jeremy's lead. It's a cool topic though, no doubt! 7.3 reliability & CR juice? NICE!

 

I would bet a lot of money that there isn't as much to it as you think. There are a lot of Mustangs running around off of a system that does exactly what Joe is talking about. It's called a F.A.S.T. fuel system FAST Product Instructions.

I am sure that some of that programming could be adapted to run on a diesel application.

 

I think you make valid points, but I also think that this application could be done and if the engine was built correctly, it could be very tame with tunes and very wicked with them as well. I know I am missing something, but I don't see it as all that hard to do. If you don't try it, you will never know. I am sure we aren't the first group of guys to discuss this either. I know Jason was talking about it over a year ago, and he is probably the 100th guy to seriously consider it and put some R&D money into it. You KNOW Gail Banks has a polished up turd of a version somewhere at his facilities.

 

Yeah, I flaked out early last night..... Sorry, but 4:15 comes early.


O.K. think about this.
Arent we already running a CR (for those of us who have tied our returns together) Yes we may need to go back and utilize hard line instead of what we have now, but could we have a split common rail
A problem that we would definatley run into is that we still only have 2 Valves per cylinder.

The difference in Heui and CR injectors is that the oil intensifies the charge in a HEUI, and the fuel pump intensifies the charge for the CR

Programming has been done for the most part. There are flow benches all over that prove that. Here is a simulated IDM for the PSD, so im sure there is software for the CR.
YouTube - idm mod test powerstroke

 

On edit to my previous post.

Well it's a mechanical truck but look here
Ford F250 - 7.3L Power Stroke - Diesel Power Magazine

 

Subscribing...

 

You'd need an external custom rail. The heads are not strong enough, nor were they designed to hold the 25K+ psi that a CR system uses.

I question how easy the programming would be. The Bosch and Banks engineers spent several days trying to get the programming right on their D-max drag truck, simply to get the engine started. It's a complete stand alone unit, which I think would have to be done on the 7.3 as well.

I don't think the stock electronics could command much of what needs to be commanded. With a CR, you're able to very precisely control the timing of the injection event, the pressure, duration, and the more than one injection event that's going on.

There is a group of guys who has discussed this before. It's been discussed for several years now. There is a group of guys also working on it...probably more than one group of guys, and for quite a while. All I'm thinking here, is that if it really is just that easy to put together a CR system into a 7.3 and it's not all that difficult to get the programming done, why have the groups who have been working on it not had something put together and running years ago?

 

Here's why I think it's simple (notice I didn't say EASY). You can equate this (like Jason is) to aftermarket fuel injection kits for gassers. There is a mountain of work that would have to be done on both HW and SW, but you just gave an example of it being done from scratch on a D-max. It CAN be done, there's no doubt in my mind. This is another one of those things that I'd play with if I had unlimited time & money. Whether it's worth doing in the end be it for profit or power is another question all together. Some things are worth doing just to say they've been done, maybe for fun (as in a hobby), to learn something, and to prove the nay-sayers wrong.

I think you're right, Jeremy. Why re-invent the wheel? Well, see the last sentence in the above paragraph....

 

I like the mechanical setup,and my idea is a v-pump in the valley with hard lines,and pencil inj. but that would be a lot of work as said before.and I don't think you could get the precision that could be had with the CR and tuning.

and this is very good reading guys,like all the idea's

What about a four valve CR two stroke powerstroke? To dirty,or will it be clean on fuel burn?since we are building.

 

Maybe we could some how fit 6.4L heads on to a 7.3. Its just a thought.