hello everyone im new to forum


I have a 77f250 4x4 with a 460 c6 trans 8"lift on 38.5tires i trive as a daily driver and i need to drive it on the highway pulling heavy loads from time to time as well as some offroading of course :P so i beefed up the motor. i added a edelbrock performer intake and carb 600 cfm and installed a full msd ignition and duel 40 series flowmasters. i got fine low end torch i find /could be better but when im pulling the camper up the mountian on the highway i could realy use more power so i want to put a rv cam n lifter and timing geas and an edelbrock rpm cylider heads can anyone tell me what i need to do for optimal performance? ie make and model number? should i roller it? i read its bad for heavy loads as well could i re gear my rear end and what whould be good for me given my needs?i dont know Please help thank you so much

 

I suggest going with 4.56 or 5.13 gears to make up for the larger tires. That will put you back to about the stock final ratio your truck started out with. Do you have 3.55 or 4.10 gears now? You are going to spend a grip of cash upgrading your engine if you get into cylinder heads.

 

Yeah need at least a 4.56 gear with 38" tire. do you have a stock converter in c-6?? you need a 750 cfm carb on that truck. On the camshaft call MPG Heads and scott will cut you a cam just for your situation and its pretty close to what you buy over the counter. He's really good with cams and do whatever you want. I run a 460 with dove heads at 10 to 1 comp with solid cam and pulls like a monster. don't think you need a alumimium head but would be nice. mpg has used stuff also to check into. On gears I run mountains and steep grades and really need 4.88 gears but truck pulls hard enough to do the job. On pullin stuff don't need any big stall converter stay low rpm on stall. Been playing with quick fuel carbs lately and really like for the price. I run a 1to 1 linkage and pulls hard straight from btm like fuel injection. i live at 4000' elev and play even higher. I'm on 40" hawgs. i run 38.5 boggers also. my engine is running 830cfm and holeshots nice. Smaller carbs are nice but you need some air in engine. What elevation do you live at???

 

um not sure i jus got the truck 8 months ago and im realy just learnering all this stuff as im flying by the seat of my pants.. so the converter in the trans im not sure buddy i got the truck from just said its a c6 trans so reallyt thats all i know and as far as the carb maybe i will get a new one i had a thunder series 800 cfm carb and the rpm performer intake but the the mech i "Had" told me to bring it back and go smaller...ihate him so much now aftet he messed up my engine and now this..rrr
anyways i live in BC canada surrey/vancouver so elevation is pretty low im sea lvl but when i go 4x4 i go up whistler mountian or any other of are local mountains..surounded by them so im guessing i need somthing with a good idle not so lumpy and i have no idea what gears i got in the back but im going to check into. Oh yeah should i stay with the same gear ratio if im running 44" tires which i plan to upgrade to as soon as these 38s wear out? sweet thank your guys so much this has been an ongoing question to any/everyone i know to ask.. i really would like to put heads on and whatnot the truck i got is a full ground off resto when i got it so im keeping it till im dei or give it to my kid when i have 1 and the time come lol

 

Fix the small stuff, and re-gear THEN go playing with your engine. A frame off resto is going to cost big dollars, and if approached incorrectly, will effectively end the life of your truck. If you plan on going with 44's, 5.13 would be the minimum upgrade I would consider. I take it you have already found a Dana 60 front axle to install to handle 44's? It is commonly accepted opinion that 38's are realistically the largest you can safely use on a Dana 44 front axle, and even at that size, expect axleshaft and balljoint failure.

 

ya i do have the dana 60 front and rear im told .
im not doing the resto on the truck i meant to say the truck has already been done when i got it about 6 months ago, every nut and bolt replace, the guy i got it from spared no expense it seems but he didnt do anything high performance,the 460 he dropped in was rebuild recently he said.
im gusseing i will need to bring my truck into a shop to tell me my gears and stall converter/trans? and get it regeared 1st then do the cam? mechanicaly the truck is pretty good so im not sure what small parts i should check into? anything specific i should look at? im really no mechanic but want to fix my own truck 1 day myself so anything you can share is greatly apreciated "and i most likely dont know it already" lol
I was also wondering after i get my truck regeared cause im pretty certain he used the stock gears in the rear and stock converter with the trans.will i need replace the 60cfm carb and performer intake when i replace my cam and heads or will it work while i do it as i drive it ..hense im poor but i love my truck more than i hate dept lol. buddy i got it from said he spared no expense doing the body work welded patches in for rust repair and then he rhyno guarded the inside of the whole box did the bumpers and the inside of my cab floor flood got a newer engine and trans in then his wife said hes got to get rid of a few of his toys so he slapped the rest of the truck back together and sold it to me for the price he paid for the tires :P
I should get my gears changed to what u recomended for the 44s 1st get my drive train looked at 2nd? then get my trans checked and put what converter in?3rd then get the cam n heads added on? what cam should i buy ie make madel i read crane cams rv cam s the way to go? but im told in need new running gears and timing gears because the 460 gears where realy crappy and they retarded the timing so huge loss of potential power? what brand should i get with the crane cam? Ah i wish i started learing this when i was a younger....

 

guys, I've owned a couple of my 1979's since they were new and I wasn't that young then. here is the cheapest and most effective way I've found to make these 460 beasts work properly.
1. follow the other guys and fix your gear ratio before you really have problems or decrease tire size.
2. . DOVE heads.
3. Voodoo cam (Don't need roller unless worried about top end).

 

sweet thx alot guys i will take your advise and do just that
i will post back with pics and tell you all how it went, Merry christmas all of you and happy new year!

 

hehe 1 sec guys im lost agian.....
you say to use the dove heads for my setup but as it seems i have turned into a forum and internet troll trying to fig out what im doing and i read they have a 75 cc combustion chamber and with the voodoo cam I'll be running around 10-5-1 combustion is not a little higher and will need to use 91-94 octane gas for proper ignition and if i use the edelbrock rps heads they have a 95cc chamber option which with the same cam will give me 9-5-1 which i can use cheep reg gas for proper ignition saving alot at the pump? any diff in head quility/performance?

 

What are the cylinder head numbers on your engine? should be near center of head below valve cover near exhaust? Should be like d3ve-aa or somethinglike that. Do a compression test on engine and see if compression is good. On 800 edelbrok it will work just need to jet properly. I think your truck just needs to be tuned correctly. need to check timing. these are things you can do yourself. I'm thinking just get this running correctly before making big changes. the compression test is cheap to do just time and will tell us a lot about your engines health. need to learn instead pay mechanic at dealer. half the time the mechanic isn't familiar with this stuff unless you find the right guy. If your compression is like 175 or higher gonna need 91 octane for sure. On tranny gonna need a pressure check while in gear. It'll have a pressure for reverse and the drive gears. If you find good shop they can check and tell you what it is. TCI - Performance Transmissions and Torque Converters has the pressures on line, don't remember what they are. good info to know. I think you have a good truck just needs to be dialed in on tuning before making big changes.

 

There's an alternative to changing the cam itself to get more torque.. I tow pretty heavy occasionally (I'm on 36" tires and 4:10 gears, 460/C6), and my engine builder suggested NOT putting an RV cam in, but instead get a 'straight up' timing gear set for your stock cam. I did this when I redid the motor last Spring and I have great torque, economy (such as it is in a 460), AND out here in Cali I still easily pass smog.. Do a search on this.. I'm pretty sure you need to seek out a pre-72 460 timing gear set.. about $35- an easy mod too

 

Ignore the guys telling you to run D0VE heads this suggestions always come from people that don't understand they are nothing more then regular passenger car heads, not some magical high performance head, they no better flow characteristics or worse then any other standard head the only thing they do is bump the compression and lighten your wallet especially when you consider you have to replace the entire valve train (pushrods, rockers etc) for almost zero gain that could be accomplished other ways cheaper and easier with the heads you already own.

IF your engine is a 72 or later crewcabwannabe mentioned it but change the timing chain to a aftermarket roller setup (they are now all straight up with the roller timing chains unless you get one specifically saying for 73 and later CA emissions engines)

 

Ignore the guys telling you to run D0VE heads this suggestions always come from people that don't understand they are nothing more then regular passenger car heads, not some magical high performance head, they no better flow characteristics or worse then any other standard head the only thing they do is bump the compression and lighten your wallet especially when you consider you have to replace the entire valve train (pushrods, rockers etc) for almost zero gain that could be accomplished other ways cheaper and easier with the heads you already own.






Okay, monster baby, Please tell us old folks that have been actually using these items for over 30 years with great results more. Also, please tell me how my dynamometer readings have been so much better with the DOVE heads. Please tell me how my flow has been so much better improved. Please tell me why DOVE heads take a different intake and exhaust valve that n the rest of the series. Also, please tell me how every article from people that know what they were talking about disagrees with everything you siad are wrong and that you are right. Maybe you are completely correct and the rest of us unkowing but highly experienced folks have been completely wrong all these years. So, please educate us lowly folks to your almighty greatness!

 

how about actual flow numbers and dyno readings from some of the best head porters in the country would you believe them?

anyone saying that equally built motors one running D0VE heads and one running D3VE heads the D0VE heads will out perform them is a liar, plan and simple. this myth has been prepatrated for way to long, that and people will actually come up with the BS that the guys with C8VE heads need to replace them with D0VE heads, guess what THEY ARE THE SAME THING. D0VE heads are NOT CJ heads they are the heads that are used on grandma's 429 2V motor in her mercury station wagon.

I didn't say they take a different valve I said valve TRAIN, they take different pushrods, and rockers and IF you were so experienced you would have known that without even thinking about it.

Sorry the myth about D0VE heads gaining soooo much power needs to die, it's already been proven to be false by real engine builders not guys trying to sell their junk for more then it's worth. They ONLY increase power IF the only thing you do is change them because they raise the compression, this does NOT make them a performance piece

And frankly I am sick and tired of people convincing unknowning new guys into the BBF world to waste their money on a set of heads that won't preform any better then the D3VE heads they already own (and in several cases on this very board telling a guy with C9VE heads to replace them with D0VE heads because the D0VE heads are sssssooooo much better)

So as mentioned in the first paragraph here is the link to Scott J's website showing the actually numbers, you know him, aka the mad porter? look at the ported numbers the D3VE heads OUTFLOW the d0VE heads and unported they are almost identical across the board (at over .600 lift the D0VE heads almost start to outflow unported but ported they lose big time over that) So now tell us that Scott is also an idiot and don't know what he is talking about.

Flow-comparison-figures-walt-n-nutter-index-1

Now I have shown you an article from someone that really does know what he si talking about, you show up one that is NOT from some magazine that thinks you can find D8TE 4 bolt main truck blocks.
yes I really do knwo something about this and so do a lot of other really smart people in the BBF world that haven't bothered to read the hot rod magazine articles.

 

It's always nice to find an really opinionated person with an attitude in charge of a forum designed to share information for everyone's benefit.
1. c8VE and DOVE are the same exact heads as far as performance. I don't want CJ heads because they Only function real well as top end not low to medium POWERwhich is where I want the power.
2. One point on compression is a great thing for low and medium power applications and I have NO problem running 87 octane with a PROPERLY functionING EGR system.
3. Sorry you got up on the wrong side of the bed but don't think for a minute you are the only one with a brain. I never mentioned Valve train or anything else, you are the one who so nastifully went off on a tangent blaming all the people with who you disagree with are less than you are...nice recommendation for a moderator.
4. Back to trying to help this topic without such a negative moderator venting his problems in lhis ife.
5. I never mentioned porting. I'm strictly talking stock application for low to medium use, not race, not extreme 4x4 of anything else wild.
6.Lastly, this forum is designed to share and help people not TO show off how masterful you are and so much greateryou think you are than anyone else. In the 60 years I've been on this planet, I've found that MOST OF THE PROBLEMS WITH THIS COUNTRY, IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, IS THAT SOME PEOPLE THINK THEY ARE SO MUCH BETTER THAN OTHERS BECAUSE THEY HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION.
I try to learn something new everyday and I will be in touch with your mad porter to follow through on the flow claims on stock, not ported application. I never found much difference on porting on the lower end just medium to high but again that's just my personal experience. I never said I was so smart, that was your job. I do know some folks I've thought highly of over the years but try not to take anything ANYONE SAYS as Gospel untill all the evidence is in.
HAVE A BETTER DAY! (UNLESS, OF COURSE, YOU'VE MADE OTHER PLANS)!