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Old Nov 6, 2008 | 01:36 AM
  #1  
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Structural Check

I'd like to find a company to tell me which of my walls are bearing walls. I'm considering making a few changes, and I'm not absolutely sure. I bought the house when it was a year old from a guy who built it to sell --but that was a few years ago.

Anyway, he did some things really well, and others not so much. But, he did use 16 inch stud spacing everywhere.

Anybody know what type of a company would be a good choice to look it over? I wouldn't want to get this wrong.
 
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Old Nov 6, 2008 | 03:08 AM
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If the wall has any roof joists resting on it, it is a bearing wall. Just go into your attic space and look for a path from the roof to the ground. If nothing is resting on a wall it is not load bearing. Generally hallways, and bedroom walls that run perpedicular to the joists are bearing. However, any change you want can be made with the use of an appropriate size header.
 
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Old Nov 6, 2008 | 03:39 AM
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Just because a wall is bearing doesn't mean it can't be headerd and removed.

If the house is fairly recent there should be a set of plans on file at the building department. I would check there first.

Do you have a basement and/or attic?
A framer could tell you in a minute which walls are bearing if you can see anything from above and or below.

I hope this helps.
 
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Old Nov 6, 2008 | 10:29 AM
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I think an architect or engineer could look at the plans and tell you
 
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Old Nov 6, 2008 | 02:53 PM
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well, all outside walls are loadbearing and they are headered to the max (unless you have a storm sewer only entrance ;-)

If you have rafters for the roof then no internal top floor walls are load bearing. If you have a center I beam and lollies, then no basement walls (if equipped) are load bearing - EVEN if they touch!

the first floor (if there is a second floor) should have live load bearing walls (the load varies as someone walks and is near zero when nothing in the room) as opposed to dead weight walls (the constant load is greater than any live load) which are the outside walls.

making headers aint hard or mysterious. most internal doors are <32" which means only 1 stud gone. headers WITH the grain of a set of joists carry less than headers crossign the grain (if I had a white board I could draw this for you)

whatcha trying to do?
 
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Old Nov 6, 2008 | 03:24 PM
  #6  
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Originally Posted by quaddriver
well, all outside walls are loadbearing and they are headered to the max (unless you have a storm sewer only entrance ;-)
Not really true. A gable end wall bears only it's own weight in most cases. (unless there's a structural ridge)

Originally Posted by quaddriver
If you have rafters for the roof then no internal top floor walls are load bearing. If you have a center I beam and lollies, then no basement walls (if equipped) are load bearing - EVEN if they touch!
If you have ceiling joists that don't span the whole house then you DO have a bearing wall on your top floor.

Originally Posted by quaddriver
the first floor (if there is a second floor) should have live load bearing walls (the load varies as someone walks and is near zero when nothing in the room) as opposed to dead weight walls (the constant load is greater than any live load) which are the outside walls.
What???
First floor interior bearing walls carry not only the floor above, and any walls, ceiling joists above that, but also anything like a full bathtub, tile, washer etc.. in addition to furniture. Live load is NOT just someone walking around a room upstairs.

Originally Posted by quaddriver
making headers aint hard or mysterious. most internal doors are <32" which means only 1 stud gone. headers WITH the grain of a set of joists carry less than headers crossign the grain (if I had a white board I could draw this for you)
If properly blocked you'll be adding two jack studs in addition to the king stud on either side of a door opening. There is more wood support when you have an opening less than four feet.
Just because an opening is parallel to the direction of the joist does not in any way diminish the load it is bearing. How does the weight magically evaporate?

I think He's trying not to let his house fall down........
 
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Old Nov 6, 2008 | 03:56 PM
  #7  
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The best way to check is to go to your basement and look first. If the wall you want to move is above a structural beam or support in the basement, then it is a load bearing wall. Just because the roof rafters are on top of it dosent mean its load bearing. And all wall no matter what are supposed to be 16"OC. If you cant figure it out, find a good contractor and he can tell you if its load bearing. An architect/engineer can also, but be prepared to shell out a few bucks.
 
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Old Nov 6, 2008 | 05:52 PM
  #8  
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Originally Posted by ArdWrknTrk
Not really true. A gable end wall bears only it's own weight in most cases. (unless there's a structural ridge)
well...not all the load is downward. If you truly have a gabled end, then that wall and its companion is what keeps the whole thing from leaning over. So you have the gabled end construction weight, half the weight between the 1st and second rafter (24oc is still allowed), plus you have a diagonal stress. In any case if you must open up an outside wall - the gabled end is easier.

Why? the header you build will support the weight we discussed. If you choose a non-gabled end - i.e. any side where there are multiple rafters, that header carrys the load of that plus halfthe roof load over that span. In many cases structural steel may be called for (such as a 16' garage door opening)

If you have ceiling joists that don't span the whole house then you DO have a bearing wall on your top floor.
this is true but the 'center wall' support is generally one over the center basement support. the load is still mostly live load as the weight of the flooring is rather insignificant. but because of this (if this is how you are built) or if you do have spanning joists - and other wall is incidental (if it does become load bearing due to settling, then you have a problem.)

What???
First floor interior bearing walls carry not only the floor above, and any walls, ceiling joists above that, but also anything like a full bathtub, tile, washer etc.. in addition to furniture. Live load is NOT just someone walking around a room upstairs.
This depends again on any center support or the span of flooring joists. If you span the house with a joist and then put in a wall under it to carry load, then you are transferring weight to possibly the center of another floor - these are the houses that sag after 30 years and current code does not permit this. And in the process of sagging, it will literally burst out the drywall. but as such, when the house is built, all floors in all room have ZERO load. What you put in later is live load - even if it sits still for a while (tubs are a special case - they are built into a wall perpendicular to the direction of the joists. a 5' tub will involve 5 joists. 50 gallons of water and 200lbs of person will put 60lbs on each joist - childs play

Just because an opening is parallel to the direction of the joist does not in any way diminish the load it is bearing. How does the weight magically evaporate?
this is actually easier to visualize than it sounds. Go back to the gabled end. open a gabled end and you have the weight of at most one joist, the gabled wall etc. basement opening on a 2 story+ attic can be a problem if the 2nd floor is perp to the opening - then the top of the header is loaded.

but for the worst case - picture a garage - a big structure with 4 walls. Most garages have open attics - only a few joists or trusses 24oc. In both cases all the roof load is on the soffitted end. We typically open the gabled end, but suppose someone wants the soffitted end opened - the load of every rafter or truss is on that header - it will overwhelm a standard 3 ply header in a snowstorm. (assume a 30psf rating and half the roof on a 24x24 garage. 16' opening for a big door.the square foot of the roof supported by the header will be appx 270sqft times 30 or 8100lbs - 4 tons, supported by a beam 3.5 inches wide and 16ft long supported only at the ends by at most 4 2x4's. - which is why they recommend dual 7 or 8' doors if you must use the soffited end)

at any rate, I still need to see what is being done to give a better answer
 
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Old Nov 6, 2008 | 07:02 PM
  #9  
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Originally Posted by quaddriver
well...not all the load is downward. If you truly have a gabled end, then that wall and its companion is what keeps the whole thing from leaning over. So you have the gabled end construction weight, half the weight between the 1st and second rafter (24oc is still allowed), plus you have a diagonal stress. In any case if you must open up an outside wall - the gabled end is easier.
If it's trussed or has a joist spanning the two opposing seat cuts, the load is on the eave walls.
I don't get the "diagonal stress" part at all, the plywood sheathing is your shear diaphragm.
What are you trying to say? That the studs support the spreading load imposed by the rafters???

Originally Posted by quaddriver
Why? the header you build will support the weight we discussed. If you choose a non-gabled end - i.e. any side where there are multiple rafters, that header carrys the load of that plus halfthe roof load over that span. In many cases structural steel may be called for (such as a 16' garage door opening)
I understand that... I've been building for over 25 years.
That's why you would a PSL, LVL or Steel beam to span a large opening in an eave wall.



Originally Posted by quaddriver
this is true but the 'center wall' support is generally one over the center basement support. the load is still mostly live load as the weight of the flooring is rather insignificant. but because of this (if this is how you are built) or if you do have spanning joists - and other wall is incidental (if it does become load bearing due to settling, then you have a problem.)
I don't know about PA but I'm only 2 states away and here in CT we have to build to 40lbsf live, and another 40 snow <d360, 420="" is="" better...="">


Originally Posted by quaddriver
This depends again on any center support or the span of flooring joists. If you span the house with a joist and then put in a wall under it to carry load, then you are transferring weight to possibly the center of another floor - these are the houses that sag after 30 years and current code does not permit this. And in the process of sagging, it will literally burst out the drywall. but as such, when the house is built, all floors in all room have ZERO load. What you put in later is live load - even if it sits still for a while (tubs are a special case - they are built into a wall perpendicular to the direction of the joists. a 5' tub will involve 5 joists. 50 gallons of water and 200lbs of person will put 60lbs on each joist - childs play
If you have enough sag, settling or shrinkage that it blew the rock off you've got bigger issues to deal with.
There is no such thing as ZERO load, tens of tons of materials go into building a house, it's got to get to the footing through some load path.

Originally Posted by quaddriver
this is actually easier to visualize than it sounds. Go back to the gabled end. open a gabled end and you have the weight of at most one joist, the gabled wall etc. basement opening on a 2 story+ attic can be a problem if the 2nd floor is perp to the opening - then the top of the header is loaded.
Well at least we agree on something.

Originally Posted by quaddriver
but for the worst case - picture a garage - a big structure with 4 walls. Most garages have open attics - only a few joists or trusses 24oc. In both cases all the roof load is on the soffitted end. We typically open the gabled end, but suppose someone wants the soffitted end opened - the load of every rafter or truss is on that header - it will overwhelm a standard 3 ply header in a snowstorm. (assume a 30psf rating and half the roof on a 24x24 garage. 16' opening for a big door.the square foot of the roof supported by the header will be appx 270sqft times 30 or 8100lbs - 4 tons, supported by a beam 3.5 inches wide and 16ft long supported only at the ends by at most 4 2x4's. - which is why they recommend dual 7 or 8' doors if you must use the soffited end)
I know how to do the Calcs. See my reply 5 paragraphs above.

Originally Posted by quaddriver
at any rate, I still need to see what is being done to give a better answer
Which is what the OP asked.
Basically "who should I have look at this to assure me which walls are bearing, and how much"


This whole thing is academic....
Ford2go likely just wants to open up his kitchen or something.
Hopefully he can just get his hands on the plans down at the Bldg Dept and move a few wires to enjoy a brighter and more open floorplan. </d360,>
 
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Old Nov 6, 2008 | 07:29 PM
  #10  
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Originally Posted by ArdWrknTrk
I don't get the "diagonal stress" part at all, the plywood sheathing is your shear diaphragm.
What are you trying to say? That the studs support the spreading load imposed by the rafters???
actually I didnt consider that, but blow a 5kt breeze on the non-gabled end and the entire load is placed on the top corners of both walls diagonally.

Im dismayed that playwood sheathing is all that is required (actually OSB seems to get away with it now)

If you ever see a house that flattened out by essentially 'falling over' - thats what happened - the walls on the gabled end failed.

I don't know about PA but I'm only 2 states away and here in CT we have to build to 40lbsf live, and another 40 snow <d360, 420="" is="" better...="">
we still allow 30psf in pa but its not wise - nw pa where I am we can get lake effect - last week we had 8" of snow cone material - Id rather have 30" of alberta clipper. Danbury Ct? (lived there and waterbury 87-94)


Well at least we agree on something.
I dont see how we were disagreeing on much of anything
 
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Old Nov 6, 2008 | 08:50 PM
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Ford2go, it is important to note that if you header an opening in an existing wall, the jack studs (boards supporting the header from underneath) need to transfer the loads they are now supporting to another load bearing point (load bearing basement wall, foundation, footing, etc.) If the jack studs are bearing loads between two floor joist, with any sizeable opening, you are setting yourself up for future probs. These jack studs need to be supported underneath by means of blocking between two floor joist, adding another joist beneath the jacks, basement floor post, etc. My recommendation is that if you are not knowledgeable about structural framing, get a contractor to do the work. Sorry, bout all the info, after rereading your ?, ---- answer is building contractor, structural engineer, draftsmans with structural software.
 
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Old Nov 6, 2008 | 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by ford2go
I'd like to find a company to tell me which of my walls are bearing walls. I'm considering making a few changes, and I'm not absolutely sure. I bought the house when it was a year old from a guy who built it to sell --but that was a few years ago.

Anyway, he did some things really well, and others not so much. But, he did use 16 inch stud spacing everywhere.

Anybody know what type of a company would be a good choice to look it over? I wouldn't want to get this wrong.
Do you have a friend who is a wood weenie? If so, ask him to take a look.

If not, maybe call a structural engineer.

You don't want to turn your two story house into a one story house.
 
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