<TABLE id=HB_Mail_Container height="100%" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0 UNSELECTABLE="on"><TBODY><TR height="100%" width="100%" UNSELECTABLE="on"><TD id=HB_Focus_Element vAlign=top width="100%" background="" height=250 UNSELECTABLE="off">Hi All,

Just ordered some milled cut red oak for my 56. Any tips , hints and wisdom before I cut out the old and put in the new?
I need to sand it and poly it with something..I was told to use sand and seal first then use helmsman spar urethane +3 coats..

thanks Mike
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Hi Mike,

Sand and seal will work great. Just be certain it is rated for exterior use. Spar varnish is exterior rated and makes a great final coat. But oak is VERY pourous. Water turns oak pours black if it gets into them. and the sun will cause the wood to expand and contract thus opening up the pours. This will compromise any exterior finish that is not impregnated into the wood (just sits on top)

I might be tempted to soak the wood in WATCO dainish oil for a few hours in a trough to allow the wood to soak it up deep into the pours. WATCO Teak Oil is used on boats and is an excellent product. It is thin enough where you wood will drink it up has epoxy polymeres in it that will dry hard - deep inside the wood not just on the surface. It and can be varnished over after 72 hours. Soak it before installation.

Good luck,
Julie!

 

Mike, I assume you have visited the world of EARL?http://www.clubfte.com/users/earl/Re...%20Information Click on the vehicle dimension link for bed numbers. I have some bed fotos in my gallery. I used tung oil as a sealant. (3 coats, sanding each ) I applied 9 coats of spar varnish, snading with mineral oil instead of water wet sanding, 1000 being the last. Be sure to thoroughly coat ALL surfaces of the boards. Test fit everything b4 fastening. Good Luck, Jim

 

Good point Jim....I forgot to mention that the WATCO is a type of Tung Oil but has the resins in it!

J!

 

I have almost finished my wood strip and am having difficulties getting the dirt particular out of the final finish. To clarify, I have oak boards that are stained with a honey stain. I then coated them with Minwax exterior super glossy polyurethane. Between application coats (10) I have been sanding with 220 to 400 to 1000 grit sandpaper. I have also been using tack clothes to remove the dust but consistently get a few small particles in the finish. I read where raerjm recommended using spar varnish as a final coat sanding with mineral oil. Will this eliminate my problems? Your suggestions are much appreciated.

Lance

 

Lance, all 9 coats were spar varnish thinned with mineral spirits, and run through a paint strainer. Buy an expensive, high quality brush made for varnishes, and clean it THOROUGHLY prior to each use. I kept all doors shut for 12 hours and wet the floor of my garage with a garden hose to help keep dust down. Cleanliness is paramount, but i think a certain amount of specks in the finish is inevitable, unless in a pro paint booth environment.

 

I would highly recommend sanding and cleaning in a completely different room/area than which you apply your clear.

 

Raerjim & fergusonicford-

Thank you for the replies. I did not think about thinning the varnish, but have been straining the product. As suggested, I will try a new high quality brush, sanding/cleaning the boards in a separate room, and wet the floors prior to applying. I appreciate your suggestions.
<O</O
Respectfully,
<O
Lance

 

hello all,
In my notes for materials I have jotted down..exterior gloss minwax...and Helmsman Spar Urethane as the best for final coats on the sand and seal.
What is the difference between Spar Varnish..and Spar Urethane?
Or do I have it wrong..not urethane but varnish..and it is good to use paint thinner in the varnish when coating it..

 

It has been said already but I would re-emphasize... TEST FIT FIRST. Lay the boards out and check each dimension; width, length, and thickness. Be sure that each edge has the proper width and depth cut out. Use the steel strips that you are going to use for the final assembly when you do the initial layout. Some manufacturers vary on the width of the strips...a 32nd may not seem like much but when you add it up across all the strips you may end up with a 1/4 inch excess. Don't ask how I know this....good luck.

 

One other thing, be sure to leave some tolerances between board rabbets and the edges of the strips, about 1/16" on each side, as oak expands and contracts with temp and humidity changes.

 

I think you have to consider whether you are going to work the truck or just want a beautiful look.

If you are going to use the truck, regardless of wood used, I would use linseed oil, two or three coats so it soaks in. No varnish or polyurethane.
This is just like a deck. If you put spar varnish on a deck, it will last about a year, then start peeling. It is a great treatment for inside uses such as a workbench, but takes a lot of maintenance if it is outside all the time.

If you use oil, it will not shine, but it will last and you only have to oil it about every three years. Oil soaked into wood looks darker than the wood alone, and it looks great on oak, red oak, or clear fir. If you use a deck, you do not want spar varnish on it, as glossy finishes are very slippery when wet or with snow. Oiled decks are the best, and oil on bed wood looks good and allows you to use the bed without danger of chipping a glossy finish. The glossy finishes need to be kept inside or kept under a tonneau cover if they are to last.

It all depends on what you want and how you would use the truck.

Regards,

Alanco

 

OK Well it looks like a lot of info has been thrown your way, and you had a few questions on them.

This is all good advice but let me try to tie it all together for you.

First, Oak is a very pourous wood that will discolor and turn black in the pours if it gets water in them (acid based wood deck rejouvenators will remove this black by the way). Like any wood it expands and contracts with heat and moisture changes. But with those big pours, they will tend to "beak apart" A hard finished surface and let moisture in.

Alancos points are very well taken in that there are very few applications today where large square footages of wood are used outside - the most common is on boats. Boats normally will use Teak (which has a VERY HIGH natural oil content) or Mahogany (which is also somewhat oily naturally) These two woods though have a completely different (and much more forgiving) grain pattern that oak.

Many folks have recommended Linseed oil, Tung oil and I think I threw in WATCO Dainish oils. From a technical standpoint these product will all do the same thing - they are going to soak into the wood and seal it up from deep inside rather than just sit on the surface. Linseed oil when boiled, was one of the older sources of oil finishes and worked quite well. It was very commonly used in furniture finishing. It is not water resistant and will stain if it gets wet just like your grandmothers old coffee table you couldn't set the glass on. It requires constant (quarterly) reoiling if your truck is going to be parked where the sun can get to it.

With those shortfalls in mind, oil finishes were inproved with the addition of polymeres to create tung oils, which are used in furniture finishing and also most commonly on rifle stocks (remember most rifle stocks are made of Walnut which like Teak is a closed grain wood high in natural oils). Poly based Tung oil solved the problem of water staining and is much more durable. One form of tung oil is the WATCO (company name) Dainish oil which furthered the improvement by not adding polymeres for stamina, but polyester resins. They make quite a few variations of the product - most of which are for interior applications - furniture etc. But one the WATCO TEAK OIL is specifically formulated for use on Teak Boat Decks that are constantly exposed to sun, salt, (possibly) and water.

If you put ANY of these oils on your oak it will absorb in like a thirsty sponge and provide and excellent water barrier with a satin finish that is not slippery and is bonded with the wood itself, not sitting on top of it.

BUT, BUT, BUT! A strictly oil finish of any kind is going to have to be maintained - and often. You will have to clean it with steal wool dipped in more oil to keep it moist. Or sometimes folks will protect the oil by putting a coat of Carnuba based wax - such as TREWAX, on it. This will also have to be maintained if used externally. TREWAX was used to wax and protect Red Oak wood floors in houses, so it is VERY hard and very durable. So much so that originally it was used alone to finish oak floors.

An important note to using oils...you have to be careful to select one that will allow you to varnish over it if you choose to. Varnishes will not stick to pure linseed oil but normally will to Tung and definately will to WATCO because they are all Poly based.

Varnishes. All currently available Varnishes are either Polyurethatne or Acrylic based. The poly is oil based (thins with paint thinner or MS) Acrylic are usually water based. Spar Varnish is the name carried over from the olden days when spars and booms on ships were vasrnished - in other words Spar Varnish implies it can be used for exterior and wet applications - that's all. If you choose a Varnish, be sure it is "Exterior" -and chances are the only ones you will find will be labelled "Spar Varnish" or "Spar Urethane"
Same thing to anyone but the lawyers.

If you "thin" the varnish to the same consistancy as the oils, it is going to fulfill the same function as the oils and do it the same way - it's going to be thin enough to be drawn into the pours of the wood - where it will dry hard (which is the function of the Polymeres and resins in the oil products I described) "six of one half a dozen of the other." Only thing is, with thinned varnish, you are dealing with the same product and you can be sure your overcoats will stick to it.

I was taught about woods by my German grandfather who was a Pattern Maker. And I started working with hard woods at the ripe old age of 10. I have and still do restore antique wood furniture, I have a 16' Mahogany Kris Kraft Motor Boat, and used to have a Morgan 32' sail boat (with teak decks) on San Francisco Bay. I maintain(ed) all these myself. But on a surface that is going to be used - not just looked at and stored inside all the time, they have to be maintained...the secret is to minimize that maintenance frequency and make it simpler when you do have to do it.

There are many formulas for exterior wood finishing just like there are for working on trucks, and there are many more than "just one" right way you can finish this wood.

Here is how I am going to do mine. I am not sure if I am using OAK (oak REALLY is not one of my favorite woods to work with - because it normally has to be "filled" - lets not go there now), Canary Wood, or a Mahogany type like Sapele, Jatoba, or Lyptus. But no matter what, my finishing process will be the same.

First, I allow the wood to cure on a flat dry surface for at least a month - NOT the garage floor. This will let me know if anything is going to turn or split. Then I'm going to cut and drill the wood to the proper sizes and finished piece configuration. I'll completely assemble the bed prior to finish and hand trim each board - nothing should be tight - fit wise. (this is because as the wood absorbs the finish, it will expand - same as a dry kitchen sponge that you put a little water on). I'll vibrater sand it smooth with #220 Garnet paper.

Then, I will make a trough out of aluminum foil lined with plastic drop cloth, put a piece of the wood in it and liberally douce it with WATCO TEAK OIL, let it soak for 30 minutes flipping and brushing fresh oil anyplae that gets "dry." After the 30 minutes, I'm going to throw fresh oil on the wood with the old oil and hand wet sand it with #400 wet and dry until ti is smooth as glass. The wet sanding "shaves" off the wood "whiskers" that raise and turns them to "wet dust" that is mixed with the oil. This oil permiated wet dust is ground into the pours of the wood like a slurry and acts as a filler for the pours. Also, the wet sanding ensures any raised grain is smooth.

After 30 minutes in the watco after sanding, I wipe it completely dry. You do one board at a time.

After 72 hours of curing with the WACTO on it, I will spray on a coat of Spar Varnish thinned to 50% - let it dry 45 minutes and do a second. Then I will let that dry 72 hours and very gently rub it smooth with 320 sand paper. I wipe it down with a tack rag or t-shirt with a TOUCH of paint thinner on it, let it dry for an hour, and spray two more coats of Spar Varnish thinned 25%30 minutes apart. After it dries 48 hours I will apply TREWAX with 0000 steel wool in accordance with the directions and buff in 30 minutes. Th ewet sandin gwith the oil and th ewax application with the steel wool absolutely takes off any foreign materials in the finish (unless your cat got on it and shook). When you are done it should be as smooth as a baby's bottom!

If you lightly scratch it, rewax will cover it. If you deeply scratch of gouge it, oil and wax will easliy fix it.

The only thing you will ever have to do with that finish is replenish the wax every six months with the steel wool and the rest will last as long as the truck.

Then when it is all done, come to San Diego and do mine!

Have Fun!!!

J!

Ps Shoot you could have probably gotten it done in the amount of time it took me to type this!

 

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<o></o>
As one who is also ready to embark (pun intended) on installing an oak wood bed, I am very appreciative of your post and the time it took to share your knowledge.
<o></o>
Since I have a tonneau cover, the truck is garage kept, and we have little rain in AZ, maintenance issues won’t be that great for me. However, for the cost and time to replace a wood bed, I think most people will want to do it the best way to prevent deterioration.
<o></o>
BTW, MAR-K has pictures of wood bed exposed to the elements using various finishes on their web site.

 

Oh that will be a snap then. The only problem you guys might have is with heat. On those 115 dgF days is will actually get hot enough to expand the air in those pours enough and soften varnish enough to make it bubble! But with your tonneau cover you should be in great shape!

One thing I for got to mention in my post above (what more could there possibly be J?) Is that hwne you soak the wood in th eoil in th etrough arrangement I mentioned, it oils BOTH sides of the bed boards - ya need to do that. Any water that gets in the bed drains out between the boards and they will stay wet for awhile under the rails So all four sides is a definate!

J!