i dont actually own an older truck, but have been tossing around the idea of buying one for a couple of years now and have a couple of questions. what i would really like is about a 51 or 52 model single axle f-5 or above with a pre 97 7.3 psd(no intercooler) and a regular truck bed.

will a 7.3 psd fit in the 48-52 models? some of the posts in here say they wont fit because the frame rails are too narrow, but some guys say they can fit a 460 in an early 50's f-1 with no modifications. others say it can only be done by moving the firewall back 4". others say it wont fit at all because it would hit the steering shaft.

has anyone tried to put a regular bed on one before? im good with body work, so i dont mind widening or lengthening a bed, but id like to know if the wheels would fit under the dually flares. ive seen a couple of super duty 650's with a regular bed on it, but they had to jack the back end up so high that the dually flares were completely above the tires and i dont really like that look.....

how strong are these trucks structurally? would they hold up to anywhere from a stock to lightly modified 7.3 with about 450-600lbs of torque?

how hard are they to find new parts for? can you just run down to advance or the ford dealer and buy a set of wheel bearings or axle seals, etc? i dont mind hunting for restoration parts, but id rather not spend a year just trying to find normal maintenance parts.

two speed axles....i have no experience with these at all, but have read that some came with one. i understand the concept of what they do, but not the how. does it work independently of the tranny or does it work through the tranny? would i be able to use the stock 5 speed from a 92-97 model truck with either the two speed or normal axle?

thanks in advance for the help!

 

Hang on one of the Big Rig guys should come along and answer your question. Friendly hint: you'll get a lot quicker response from the right people if you put the subject of the question as the topic. I.e. "??? about 51 - 52 F5s and psd install" will catch the eye of someone well versed in the topic much faster than "newbie question" where the post must be opened and read to find out what you need info on. If you stick around you'll see just how many times a week we see that general topic here.

 

F5 is still a single rail frame right? I think it is the F6 that they stacked two frames on top of each other. Anyway, the 2 speed axle is vacuum actuated....independent of the transmission. To have it "feel" like a truck, I would suspect the ZF 5 speed or even ZF 6-speed would do nicely behind the 7.3L. An E4OD just wouldn't fit the bill, IMO. Width-wise the frame in front outside to outside is 32" and the rear is 34". So if you think it'll fit, I say go for it. At one time I pondered the same thing using the complete driveline of an 80's 1600 Loadstar IH truck With an old cab except still using the flatbed. IIRC the width of the wheels is about 85" ? F8 is about 93" I would be excited to see it work out, but I'm just wishful, not in the know. Good luck!

 

F-5 had the double frame just like the F-6. F-4s have the single layer frame.

 

thanks for the tip AX. im still really new to the older trucks, so forgive me if i ask a stupid question about them lol. im renovating a house right now and as soon as it sells im planning on buying an old truck. im still probably a year or so away from being ready to buy one, but im wanting to get as much info on them as i can before i get to that point. so i hope you all dont mind me hanging around here and picking your brains from time to time.

 

personally, i dont think an automatic should be allowed in a truck to start with, so the e4od is out of the question anyways lol. i wasnt sure on the 2 speed axle. i drove my uncles rollback for him one time and it had a two speed axle. the button was on the shifter, so i wasnt sure if it was just mounted there or what.

 

I found it ax, thanks. Diesels in the old trucks......ahhhhhh. An F-5/6 have pretty stout frames. There suspension is pretty beefy too. You'll likely have to do some firewall stretching and reworking to accomodate the turbo. They will fit, but it is work. The steering box on these trucks is inside the frame rail,a nd YES that poses a problem for installing diesel V-8s. My (F-700-900 whatever size you want to call it) truck has a Caterpillar V-8. The frame is out from under a 74 LT-8000 dump truck. Steering box is on the outside of the frame rail, so I had to make a double jointed steering arm, but didn't have any problem. Personally, there is more room in the 53 56 engine. I can turn you onto a 53 F-600 for $500 right now. It's complete and has a two speed rear, and is just sitting there waiting to be snatched up and rebuilt. For your venture, I would personally suggest a Cummins. It is not all that long, and there is more room side to side with a Cummins than with the PSD 7.3. One of our members (I can't remember who) is well into a cummins conversion in a F-600. We also have Mechmagcn (spelling????) who is well under way with a Mercedes install into a F-100. For your interestets with the Medium Duty truck, i think a Cummins 5.9 would be your better bet. Get one from an early 90's Dodge, that has the mechanical injection, and get it's matching 5 speed, or the heavy automatic. Yes, an auto in a big truck is fine, but like you, I prefer the transmission control. It will fit right in there and doesn't require a whole years worth of fabricating parts and stuff to make it work. It is especially good because the turbo is on the side as opposed to the top rear.

Here is a thread about this topic, and there is a lot of compiled thoughts and info in there

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/4...6-diesels.html

 

thanks for the info. i would PREFER a psd conversion, but i wouldnt be opposed to a cummins. im a die hard ford man and wont ever own anything but a ford. and while i know ford doesnt make the psd, i would still feel shamed owning a cummins lol. then i would have to go into this long explanation that the only reason i used it was because it was more narrow lol. although i do love the sound of a good cummins......and if a cummins will fit with ease and a pds wont, then im not scrapping my project just for pride......

i really like the 51/52 front end the best, but to be honest with you, the 53 doesnt look that much different. would i run into the same problems with the 53 as i would the 52? i dont mind body work, welding, painting, interior, engines, etc. but i dont want to get into having to swap frames, engineer my own steering components, etc.

im not one to build a car and just leave it in the garage or take it to shows. so if i build one, its going to get driven and its going to do some towing. and that means normal wear and tear. how hard is it to find brakes and stuff like that for them? also, i read that the two speed axles were something like an 8.0 and 5.0. do they make ring gears that could get me in the 3.73/4.10 range? one of our rollbacks is like that and its 55 mph wide open. id like to be able to cruise 60-65 at a reasonable rpm.

what kind of info can you get me on that 53 f-600? if its in decent shape, a reasonable distance from me, has a clean title, and my project is do able then i would definately be interested. im just trying to make sure what i want to do can be done, and done relatively easily, before i go out and buy anything.

 

Well, if you are a die hard Ford fan, then perhaps you should do some Ford truck research. LOL. The 5.9L Cummins is an engine option for some newer Ford trucks (used to use a '02 F-650 that was stock with a 5.9 Cummins). They also have Caterpillars available. So, by going the Cummins route, you are not turning your back in any way on the Ford pride of ownership. You're in TN, so you are a little ways away. The F-600 is here in Central Oregon. It has the two speed, and there were two ratio options available. Also, by going the route of a 5 speed, with a roughly .72, or .87:1 OD, you would be able to get a little more speed out of it. Or, you could go the route of changing out the rear axle for a newer Super Duty axle (which would likely be in the 4.10:1 area). This would also widen your options for wheels and tires as well.

 

You can also check out FTE member rustyrelics thread here on a 56 F-600 cummins install. Look at his gallery as well.

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/7...onversion.html

 

oh, i know ford offers lots of different engine options for the 650. its just that a lot of my "friends" drive dodges and we are always going back and forth about which is better between the psd and cummins. if i put a cummins in it id never hear the end of it from them. whats the matter, the psd not have enough power for you, finally getting a real engine, etc. its all in good fun and wouldnt stop me from going that route, but they would definately ride me about it for a looooong time lol.

i had actually thought about the super duty axle, but i had a lot of questions about that route. probably enough to start a whole new thread about. mainly just if the rear ends are the same width and if they make wheels big enough with the super duty bolt pattern that i could run the stock tire size.

 

Hi phillips91,
Your post title said "newbie question", but I noticed that you have logged over 200 posts so I'm guessing you are new to this particular forum. There a lot of guys here that have done some really unusual things to their trucks. Probably more so than others in the newer truck forums. So, welcome to the forum and I suggest you become a regular if you are committed to this project.

When you consider all the things you would have to do to convert and upgrade the frame and driveline of the older truck, it doesn't make sense to me not to go with a complete newer rolling chassis complete with the drive line you want. You said that you had no problem with doing welding and bodywork. If you do have the skills and facilities, I would think it would be easier and better in the long run. Chances are you could come up with a complete donor truck for the chassis and drive line as cheap or cheaper than buying the individual parts. This would also allow you to make use of less than a whole older truck which might make it a lot easier to find.

When putting an older cab on a newer frame, sometimes guys use the floor pan and firewall of the newer truck they are using the frame from. They graft it into the bottom of the older cab. It is probably likely that whatever older truck you find will have a rusted out floor and need replaced anyway. That way they have the matching mounts to use and the firewall matches the engine. Also, the PSD needs the wiring and PCM stuff to go with it. This stuff is integrtated into the firewall. You are going to find out that integrating the newer wiring and control stuff as well as the fuel system and tanks into the older frame and firewall is going to be a pretty tough nut to crack. Also, by integrating the newer firewall you will be getting the newer heat and air conditioning equipment as wekk as the swinging pedals. It is going to be a lot more work in the long run to convert the older rolling chassis to the newer engine and do all the upgrades you need.

As for using a dually type pickup bed, it also will probably adapt to newer chassis much better. However, you may not want it because it doesn't look right to you. You can build a bed that will look right by using the old style rear fenders appropriate for your truck and fabricating the rest. My son is planning on sitting his '53 F-100 on an '86 F-250 4WD diesel chassis with a dually rear end from an F-350. He plans on building a bed using the fenders on a wider fabricated bed and using trailer fenders to make the inside wheel wells.

Since the newer 350 SDs are probably rated as good or better that the old f-5s and F-7s, I would think that you could get by with one and do just as well in the hauling and towing capacity area. In my F-350 PSD dually I have cariied and towed very large loads for extreme long distances with no problems.

I'm merely making suggestions based on what I have encountered in doing stuff like this. Please don't thnk that I am trying to tell you what to do or how to do it. No matter what route you take on this project, you are going to encounter a lot of problems to solve. But hey, that's part of the fun. If it was easy, women and children would be doing this stuff. Oh wait, they are doing this stuff. What was I thinking???

Good luck with your project and keep us posted. Oh yeah, I almost forgot, as a requirement to participate in this forum, pictures are required. Of course we'll have to grant you a stay of execution on that until you get a truck and get started.

Later Man...

 

dave-the reason im here is for suggestions. i come up with all sorts of crazy ideas and if something i come up with is something you all have thought about too, and it wont work, by all means dont be afraid to tell me so. id rather know before i put a lot of time and money into something only to find out it wont work. as far as being a "newbie"....my experience with 50's models trucks is, well, ive never even sat in one. i saw a 51 or 52 f-5 for sale in someones yard about a year ago and ive wanted one ever since.
take the 92-97 f-series for example. i know that the f-super duty is the same size as everything all the way down to the f-150. doors, beds, tailgates, fenders, etc is all interchangeable. they are only different from the frame down. i also know that i can take a 1980 f-150 cab and bed and with nothing more than hand tools put it on a 97 f-350 frame. where i run into problems is i dont know if the f-2 is the same size physically as an f-6. can you take an f-6 cab and bolt it right on to an f-2 frame? or did the size of trucks back then get progessively bigger as you went from an f-1 to an f-8?
the idea of grafting the old cab onto the new firewall is something i hadnt thought of, and actually sounds like a good idea. my only problem there is if i find an old f-7 i cant find a newer f-series that is rated for the same gvwr unless i start getting into f-550 territory. and those things arent cheap even if you find one thats been beat all to crap and wrecked. an f-4 or f-5 wouldnt be hard to match with a newer f-series ratings wise, but if i get an f-8, i want to be able to haul an f-8 type of load lol.

 

oh yeah, if i buy a 1951 f-5 and put it on a 1995 f-350 chassis, what would i have legally? would i have a 51 f-5, 95 f-350 or an 08 truck? we build a lot of kit cars and if we use a 1932 body on a 1977 mustang II frame we have to title it as the year we built it. so it would be titled as a 2008 even though nothing on it is from 2008.

 

I'm not sure what State you live in so I can't really give you any help regarding their laws and registration procedures. I probably wouldn't be any help if I did know your home state. I have enough trouble keeping the laws straight in Ohio and WV which I live very close to. In Ohio where I live there are several different routes we can go on this. We can have it inspected and titled as an assembled vehicle, or have it titled as the year and name of the body if we have a good title for it to start with. If I were going for an accurate restore job I'd want it titled as what it was. In the case of extreme body and/or mechanical modifications, it would not really matter to me that much. I'd probably go the easiest way and also keep in mind what the insurance company would do about it. Anything I build, I either intend to sell it or drive it until I croak or it does. In the case of the latter I don't care what it's called. I just want to be able to license it and insure it at a reasonable rate.

As for grafting the newer floor pan and firewall into an older cab, there is a guy on here that used the floorpan and firewall from a '91 Explorer so he could use the rolling chassis from the explorer which was a very close match to the original tracking width and wheel base. I am on vacation for a month visiting my son near Atlanta right now and I don't have his username here with me. I also deleated a lot of my messages so I don't have access to a record of my PM correspondence with him I believe his username was houghda but I'm not totally sure of it. He has a lot of pictures on his gallery. If I find it I'll PM you with the link.

Later Man...