Im trying to do some research before I purchase anything. I found this sight yesterday, and thought this would be a great place to gain some info.

Im wanting to build a 73 ford f-100 longbed, with the nifty tool box built into the bed. It looked like a cool truck to build a mild street ride out of. I want use a 351 motor but am unsure which block would be a better platform to start with. Basicly I wanted to end up around 350 to 400 hp without it costing an arm and a leg, and have it be somewhat dependable, as this will be a regular driver for me. I here different thing from different places, and its all left me a bit confused so I was hoping you guys could help me see things a little more clear. What exactly are the pros and cons for these blocks?

Any advise/links would be very helpfull, thanks in advance.

 

Well, this is quite a broad subject. Doing a search would bring you LOTS of information, but I will try to encapsulate it for you:

These engines are vastly different with almost no interchangable parts. The Cleveland was designed from the first sketch on a piece of notebook paper with the design goal being a sturdy, powerful engine. The 351W was an afterthought modification of an engine that was originally designed with a goal of having a V8 that would fit in a very small engine compartment because they knew that small cars were on their way.

The Cleveland has a stronger bottom end and higher flowing heads and is the superior of the two designs for performance work if you have deep pockets or if you already have a Cleveland in your posession. The Cleveland was only built for a few years, so there is not a plentiful supply of parts either at the speed shops or the junk yards.

The 351W OTH is plentiful in entirity and in part. For street performance work, the W is plenty sturdy enough and can be built with plenty of power given the aftermarket heads currently available. The W is basically a Small Ford with the deck height raised one inch. The heads are the same, the trans mount and timing cover mounts are the same and the cams are the same as the Small Ford of which MILLIONS have been built, thus providing plenty of parts, accessories and savvy everywhere.

If you want to have the sexiness of being able to say that your truck has a Cleveland, and you lean to one side when you sit down due to the thickness of your wallet, then that could be your choice. With planning and thought you will be able to get just as much power from a W and still find yourself leaning to one side when sitting on your wallet.

 

DOC has pretty much covered it, so just to restate the real 351C was very rare and was NEVER offered in trucks. The 351M was offered in trucks and although it looks like a 351C the heads are very different and don't flow nearly as much.. no better than the windsor heads, so these will have to be upgraded to reach your power goals. I only state this because there are a lot of people that confuse the M and C motors, you may or may not be one of those.

 

it depends on your usage, if you ever pull a trailer don't use a cleveland. i had an 80 f150 i put one in completly stock 2 bbl heads with an aftermarket 4bbl intake. it doesnt have enough torque to pull a trailer at 55mph, but on the other hand it was happy pulling one at 80mph.

 

Both the 351C and 351W have the same six bolt bellhousing pattern. The Cleveland 2V heads are almost or completely the same as 351M/400 heads. The Windsor engine has larger main bearing journals.

The Cleveland engine is generally considered to be more of a high rpm motor (especially the 4V version) whereas the Windsor is not.

 

The 351M/400 heads are exactly the same as the late open chamber 351C 2V heads. The flow is definitely there. The problem with the 351M/400 is building adequate CR with off the shelf components.

In the last few years, more parts are available that can make the 351M or more easily, the 400 into very powerful and durable engines.

 

The Cleveland stuff is still plentiful in Australia

 

Yes the Australians had some nice Cleveland parts, like 2V heads with closed (small) chambers but with the 4V exhaust pattern. They also had 4V intakes to fit the 2V heads. These are sold by a US importer for fairly reasonable prices. I don't recall off hand the importer, but you can do a little internet searching for them.

 

All alot of help here guys, thanks. It sounds like the 351c might be hard to find, and a little pricey as far as parts go. I might just go with the Winsor motor. If i do this I will have to purchase a set of aftermarket heads to make any kind of power out of this tho? What heads would you guys suggest if this is the case? Keep in mind Im trying to build this thing on a low budget.

I would plan on rebuilding the moter, what would you guys suggest for parts/build? I just want it to have some pep to it, not an all out racer or anything. Would certainly like it to be above 300 hp tho.

Another question, the truck currently has a 360 moter in it, and i belive its a c-6 transmission. Will the c-6 bolt up to a 351w with a simple bellhousing change?

 

The 360 is an FE engine and the bellhousing will not bolt to a Cleveland, Windsor or the big engines.

As far as parts for a rebuild go, there is no way of knowing what you will need unti tear down.

 

The C6 transmission does not have a removable bellhousing so you can't swap bellhousings. There are C6s that do fit the small blocks though.

 

Look into some thumper E7 heads. Decent power for a stock reworked head.

 

Or put 351C heads on a 351W using a special conversion intake manifold. This was done a little bit in the old days (1980s) and the special intake manifold was made by B&A Performance. This manifold is long out of production though and I never see it on eBay.
However Edelbrock has recently made a version of this manifold (why, I don't know, interest in this conversion is negligible compared to twenty years ago), I'll see if I can post a link:

Edelbrock.com - Manifolds - Ford - Performer RPM - 351C/351M/400M



Here's a write up on the whole engine:

The Mustang Shop

You can find lots of info about this on the computer using the keyword "Clevor". It's probably true that it's not such a cost effective way to power nowadays with the very good 351W heads available, but other than the cost, it's a great compromise, and different.

 

If i end up going with the 351w, i was reading up on the gt40 heads. Cast iron with decent flow it seems. I noted some on ebay (i probably would not buy there, im to nervous buying used mechanical parts online sight unseen) and noticed the price seem pretty resonable for used/refurbished heads. From what ive seen the only mod needed was to redrill for larger headbolts?

I may have a good deal on a 351c w/ c-6 auto tranny tho... supposed to be a modified balance and blueprinted blah blah blah, but its currently sitting in a garage partialy unassembaled, and would have to be gone through. The original owner of the block works with me and says it was in his 70 somthing mustang that a oak tree fell on and killed the car lol. According to him it is a 4 bolt boss motor? Motor and tranny would go for a even grand, if i go that route.

Im not rushing into anything, just takin my time and doing some research, before i start anykind of real work. This f-100 project would take me a year or so to complete anyway with my budget, so no sence in rushing anything.

 

If it has a 360, I suggest you put the 351 idea on hold and visit the FE forums. A stroker crank, some pot-metal heads and manifolds, headers, a few do-dads here and there and you have an engine that fits, bolts to your trans, hooks to your radiator, and makes the power you are looking for along with more low-end torque (if you use a stroker and get to 410 or better cubes for example). The money needed to convert to a different series engine will go into performance parts instead of engine mounts and radiators etc.

jmo, ymmv, titi, dwyw, iyt.