Here is my question:
I would like more traction and think Open DIff's are useless on a 4x4.
I do mostly city/highway driving and would like to have something that would be dependable and also allow me to get down some logging trails at times.
who has changed an open diff to LS or Locker and has had good long term troubleless success,
Like how many miles ahve you put on since you changed your DIff

 

you didnt say what kind of truck youve got but if your doing mostly highway driving then you definitely don't need a locker. open differentials arn't even close to being worthless. i have an 85 bronco dedicated to wheeling and it has open differentials and worn down 31x10.50s. i have yet to have anything stop me other than something i didnt have enough ground clearance for, and even then ive scraped the frame and whats left of the body over many obstacles. i live on a farm and we have never had a truck with limited slip or a locker, and our fords have always gone anywhere we wanted, usually pulling wagons and trailers way too heavy for the trucks to boot. plenty of my friends who have jeeps they wheel with are also running open differentials and they can tackle just about anything within reason. my point is youll get more places in the woods by knowing how to drive than you will by just having expensive modifications. the 500 or 600 dollars you spend on the locker might be just as good invested in a good pair of mud tires, they will get you pretty far and they will be a much simpler upgrade. now if your gonna start getting into some serious offroading, rock crawling, and mudbogging, then put a locker in the rear and a limited slip up front! just my 2 cents from a dumb redneck farmboy

chris

 

I second that! Open diffs definetly aren't useless! It's all about the operator!

 

I agree that open's are not useless, and that it's all about the operator. But there is no way that a dual open truck can out wheel a locked truck, even if the operator isn't that great IMO. You might find some useful information to make your decision here.

https://www.ford-trucks.com/dcforum/DCForumID112/1141.html


Primary rig is Green Thunder:
95' F-150 XLT 4x4, 302, 5 spd, MSD 6A, Flowmaster Exhaust, Sunroof, Clear corners w/ Diamond headlights, CD player with 2 10" subs and some 32" BFG Muds .

Check out my Gallery for a look-see.


Justin - One Happy FTE Member

 

never said an open would ever outperform a locker, just that he probably doesn't need one for his truck with what he's planning to do with it IMO definitely check that link out if you still want a locker, there's alot of useful information there to guide you in the right direction.

chris

 

I'll put my opens up against any locker!








...as soon as I get my 4WABS w/Traction Control swap finished.;-)

 

I would put a LS in the rear. It's so much nicer to have the extra traction when you want it. You won't even know it's in there when your driving on the road, unless you mash the gas and turn really sharp. I have a LS in the front of my truck also. It makes it hard to steer when in 4x4. But I also have manual steering so... I definately recomend a LS though, you don't need a locker.

 

>never said an open would ever outperform a locker, just that
>he probably doesn't need one for his truck with what he's
>planning to do with it IMO definitely check that link
>out if you still want a locker, there's alot of useful
>information there to guide you in the right direction.
>
> chris

I wasn't trying to say YOU said it wouldn't outperform, I was just simply stating it.


Steve- You can try to put your opens up against a locked truck but you'll lose everytime if you're driving the open and you then drive the locked truck. If the driver of the locked truck is aweful then you might have a chance. The open diff will allow 2 wheels to have power, a locked truck is 4 and there is no way they compair tractionwise.

Primary rig is Green Thunder:
95' F-150 XLT 4x4, 302, 5 spd, MSD 6A, Flowmaster Exhaust, Sunroof, Clear corners w/ Diamond headlights, CD player with 2 10" subs and some 32" BFG Muds .

Check out my Gallery for a look-see.


Justin - One Happy FTE Member

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 17-Nov-02 AT 11:57 AM (EST)]Thanks for the pepliers I am new here, and lost, Sorry I might have written this wrong, Im interested in durability,
as far as the operator I drive Gravel train in Michigan Im always off road with 160.000 lbs being pulled by a semi so I do know my mud somwhat

I have just gotten a F250 superduty 4x4 with the 5.4 regular cab loadded out. it has the off road package,and heavy duty tow package.
The rear axle on the door sticker says 31 on axle type, I thought Off-Road would have LS on the rear, but did'nt find this out till after I looked into it closer
the axle tag says (S136H 731050m11).
Maybe im wrong but for my information it's an open diff.

In Michigan here there can be alot of mud maybe not enough to bury the truck in someplaces but enough to slip in,

Also I could go with heavy mudders but then I also want a good Highway ride (not to much noise is any)

BUT my main question was durabilty and long term usage, I go to Flordia once a year and dont want what ever I decide on to go out when im far from anywhere,So my main question is which should I go with, who has good luck with the variouse ones made?????


Thanks again gents

 

Justin
You missed the part about Traction Control - it will cause the drivetrain to act like it has automatic instantaneous selectable lockers (like 2 ARBs that switch themselves off & on exactly when needed). The ABS computer will detect wheelspin (from the open diff) before it gets going and apply a little brake to the wheel that's loose. This will send power back to the wheel with some grip & keep me going without any adverse effects on-road or understeer in mud. It's really doing exactly the same as ABS, except that it also works if a wheel speeds up, where normal ABS is only active if a wheel slows suddenly.

 

Justin
if I read this right your saying that the ABS will act as if I was manually appling the brake to get the other wheel spinning but doing this automatically??
I did'nt know it did that I thought it just pulsed the brakes to maintain steering at different pulses to match different speeds
Hummmm interesting,,

But also I was asking is--- What does other people have and how trust worthy are they over the long run like in years or miles,
I hav'nt decided to keep my open diff yet but am looking at replacing it with something that would help spin the wheels together and lock up some way so I can get the most traction when needed...

that all my original post was about

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 18-Nov-02 AT 00:42 AM (EST)]for what your doing....it sounds like a limited slip would do just fine.

You cant beat a locker(S) off road I love my welded front and rear...my truck will climb a tree....literally hehe

 

>Justin
>You missed the part about Traction Control - it will cause
>the drivetrain to act like it has automatic instantaneous
>selectable lockers (like 2 ARBs that switch themselves off &
>on exactly when needed). The ABS computer will detect
>wheelspin (from the open diff) before it gets going and
>apply a little brake to the wheel that's loose. This will
>send power back to the wheel with some grip & keep me going
>without any adverse effects on-road or understeer in mud.
>It's really doing exactly the same as ABS, except that it
>also works if a wheel speeds up, where normal ABS is only
>active if a wheel slows suddenly.

Sorry about that Steve, I missed it because it kind of blended in with you're signature. I'm not really a fan of traction control. It's better than a regular open diff, but not better than an LS or Locker (IMO). My mom's car has it and it is AWEFUL for traction. It just doesn't work that well. Although the theory of how it works is right on the money, IMO it still doesn't work 1/2 as well as a locked truck. LS i'd say it's pretty close, but I like the LS in my truck a heck of a lot better. Her car's system also only works under 30 mph and will stop working if the brakes heat up to much, but that's not it's major flaw. I don't really know why they don't work that well, as I said the theory it's a good idea. Do any real off road trucks that you know of run traction control? No, they are all locked and thats for a reason.


>Justin
>if I read this right your saying that the ABS will act as if
>I was manually appling the brake to get the other wheel
>spinning but doing this automatically??
>I did'nt know it did that I thought it just pulsed the
>brakes to maintain steering at different pulses to match
>different speeds
>Hummmm interesting,,
>
>But also I was asking is--- What does other people have and
>how trust worthy are they over the long run like in years or
>miles,
>I hav'nt decided to keep my open diff yet but am looking at
>replacing it with something that would help spin the wheels
>together and lock up some way so I can get the most traction
>when needed...
>
>that all my original post was about

You mean Steve right, kind of confused me there. ABS works to keep the tire from skidding when you slam on the brakes. This allows you to turn and brake at the same time, as well as maximize stopping distances (A skidding tire doesn't stop as fast). However, if a vehicle has traction control, it has a separate system past the ABS. Since there are two ABS sensors (1 on each wheel) the computer knows the speed of both tires. When one is spinning faster than the other in a low traction situation, the brake is applied to the spinning wheel. You see, the nature of an open differenial is that power is given to the tire with the least traction. When the Traction Control System applies a brake to the spinning tire, power is sent to the other tire in theory. It works, but not so great. A limited slip diff will put equal power to both wheels all the time going straight. When you turn, the cluches slip to allow the tires to rotate at different speeds allowing for smooth and quiet operation. On an LS truck, if you turned and slammed on the gas with the LS, the truck wouldn't put that much power to the inside tire (the one that has the least traction), it would take power and put it to the tire w/ more traction and you're truck would push ahead. If you did the same in an open diff, the spinning tire would recieve almost all of the power and the truck would just sit there and accelerate slowly because the tire with traction doesn't have much power to it. Traction control works but not as well as an LS according to some magazines I've read and my own experience and opinions. The LS swap is very easy and cheap. I'm doing it right now because my truck has an open rear and front. I got an 8.8 31 spline LS unit from ebay for 50 bucks, and am putting a clutch rebuild kit in it that cost 75 bucks. This makes it like new, and i'm also putting more clutches in it to make it a lot more aggressive and perform better than stock.




Primary rig is Green Thunder:
95' F-150 XLT 4x4, 302, 5 spd, MSD 6A, Flowmaster Exhaust, Sunroof, Clear corners w/ Diamond headlights, CD player with 2 10" subs and some 32" BFG Muds .

Check out my Gallery for a look-see.


Justin - One Happy FTE Member

 

I've never driven a locked truck, but Steve, have you? If you havn't, and drove a locked truck and then drove your truck over the same trails, I think you'd be surprized in the performance of your traction control system. For anyone wondering, a truck with a locker, will send 50% power to both wheels no matter what. It will unlock and ratchet around a corner but that is where driving on the street becomes a disadvantage to a locker. The operation isn't as smooth as an open or LS. If you took 4 trucks. One open, one w/ traction control, one with LS, and the other locked and put them in a situation where one tire was completely off the ground... the open truck would just spin the tire in the air, the traction control would try to brake the spinning wheel but it would still spin. It won't give a whole lot of power to the opposite wheel and will have trouble moving forward. If the LS is new/good shape it will apply 50% power to the wheel, but becuase of the clutches, it will reduce that number slightly. The locked truck will push on because it has 50%, no more or less to that tire and pleany of power to move ahead. These are my opinions through my experiences.


Primary rig is Green Thunder:
95' F-150 XLT 4x4, 302, 5 spd, MSD 6A, Flowmaster Exhaust, Sunroof, Clear corners w/ Diamond headlights, CD player with 2 10" subs and some 32" BFG Muds .

Check out my Gallery for a look-see.


Justin - One Happy FTE Member

 

yea, once you go locked you never go back, i was surprised