[updated:LAST EDITED ON 18-Nov-02 AT 05:39 PM (EST)]When I started this post I was more interested in how long people have had there LS or LOCKER,
or any thing else you can fit into a diff.
I know how they work I need to know what ones are the most DEPENDABLE,
And how long has some had there's Years/Miles. Maybe switched out of different axles
I was told before that An LS looses traction as it wears and was also told that AUBURN just goes out with no warnining, thats the kinda stuff im looking for,

I will get rid of my open Diff, but hav'nt decided on what to get as far as dependablity, not concerned what they are just how will it last
and hold up to everyday driving

 

Well the information we're giving you should be helping you decide LS or locker but you questioned the ABS system and I described that for you. I realise we got off topic but it's still good information. Sorry for changing the thread a little, I appologize.


Primary rig is Green Thunder:
95' F-150 XLT 4x4, 302, 5 spd, MSD 6A, Flowmaster Exhaust, Sunroof, Clear corners w/ Diamond headlights, CD player with 2 10" subs and some 32" BFG Muds .

Check out my Gallery for a look-see.


Justin - One Happy FTE Member

 

it ok mustang,
See I really have all the information from other sources,
My main thing was durability since I do take long trips a few times a year mostly in the winter and was thinking about aftermarket parts for carrier.
So I know I do want better traction then open diff but hav'nt decided if I should go with factory or aftermarket.

Thanks

 

Mustang
Have you ever actually DONE that test? The LS is the one that will have trouble. If the torque needed to move the truck is greater than the torque the clutch pack is capable of providing, it'll act like it's open. Even the locker has a limit on how much torque it can handle before unlocking, and the wheel in the air is getting 0% power - not 50%. The TC (assuming it's working correctly - THAT'S why crawlers don't use it) will look just like the locker, but with more noise from the brakes. The main reason "REAL" off-roaders don't use TC is that a) they don't understand it, b) there are no parts for it that will fit their rigs, c) they can't afford it, and d) they consider it unreliable because of a).

Car TC is much different from 4WD/AWD truck TC, which is what I'm swapping to. There's not much comparison between your mom's car and what I'm putting on my Bronco.

 

TC will not work as well as a locker THAT'S why four wheelers don't use it. TC requires traction to be lost before it can operate. One wheel must be spinning signifcantly faster than the other for the computer to recognize that the tire diferentiation is due to lost traction and not a sharp turn on the street. Often time stopping because of lost traction will prohibit you from overcoming an obstical. A locker will keep the wheels locked together and allow you to continue on, maintaining momentem. Also, A locker will remain locked no matter how much torque you apply to it (providing it doesn't break first) it will only unlock if you apply NO torque such as coasting. TC is a good alternative for mom mobiles that never see serious off road use but simply cannot compete w/ a true locker.

 

Well for what its worth. I have been doing a lot of reasearch on which way to go for my truck also. It seems it's all about your driving habits and the disadvantages of your final choice your willing to put up with. Because any choice will have its disadvantages. You need to minimize the disadvantages in relation to what situations they are going to be used in. What I'm having trouble w/ is finding some of those quality products for my application (i.e., OX, Eaton,..). My understanding is that a limited slip works best at higher speeds (more RPM's more lock) and lockers mostly perform best at lower speeds. IMHO I beleive for your driving habits a locker for the rear would not be appropriate. You might do some research on Auburn and Eaton LS's. My driving habits are more similar to yours than not and I thought an ideal set-up would be a locker (LockRight i think its called) for my front Dana 50 and an Auburn LS for my 10.5" rearend. Although I've heard a lot of good things about the Detroit SofLoc (mostly quieter than previous Detroits) too. And I see a Dana 50 listed on the application guide on their web-site as if their ready to introduce one for this application. The Auburn LS has good reviews for performing in rain and snow so I thought I wouldn't need to utilize the manual front locking hubs until I'm doin some serious off-roadin and need it to "pull" me out. Oh well. Still saving for the upgrades so the jury is still out on this one. Good luck!

 

Steve, whats the difference between you're traction control and my moms, or the one in a 99 Mustang GT? I took it for a drive to put it to its limits and was very surprized at how crappy it was. The mustang's brakes are probably better than whatever you have in your truck and it still couldn't hold that tire from spinning extremely fast when i drove it. I could rip it out like the traction control wasn't there and it wouldn't accelerate very quickly. Sure it was exaggerated more with it off, but it didn't make much different. The previous poster made some good points. But the traction control can't get enough power to the 2nd wheel because the rear brakes arn't strong enough, they only have 30% power to them. When I drove my mom's car in the rain, it has a 4.6L V-8 so it can easily spin the tires at up to 40mph. I can go 35 and punch it and the rear tires will just sit there and spin and the car will not accelerate. Same thing at 10-20mph when the traction control is working. The traction control only works up to 30 but while taking off or accelerating from a rolled start, you can feel the engine working against the brakes, but it will just overpower the brakes. You can feel the car being held back but the engine pushes ahead of the brakes. The system is designed for the operator to have an easier time keeping the tire from breaking away traction and it wasn't designed to get you out of a mud hole or similar off-road situation. I'm talking about the design of the system itself, not just the one on the car. I've had my mom's car in a steep hilled driveway in maine and my mom couldn't even drive it up the hill or back it up. The area was setup where you came down a hill and there was a flat area next to the house. She couldn't back up and turn it around on the flat area w. sand!! My dad could because he can drive better but it was still very difficult for him. I had trouble making it up the hill in 2wd I had to use 4wd if I wasn't able to approach with a run at it (my truck has opens). But the other chevy impala there with it's own posi system (same as ford's traction lok) made it just fine and hardly spun a tire backing up or driving up the hill and an old guy was driving it. In my opinion you're going to be very suprised with it. I give it to ya that the theory is a good one but it doesn't work that well. I read it in motor trend, they said traction control was inferior to a limited slip diff. I believe you're entitled to your own opinion and if that is what you'd like to have on your truck then I give you a big thumbs up for being different. I just don't believe that in my opinion you're going to come even close to a locked truck. You'd barely come close to an LS traction wise in my opinion. Not trying to be a jerk but this is an honest question, there are obviously exceptions to this, but here it goes. How can you say off-roaders can't afford it? I see people on magazines with 40-50K into their truck, are you telling me that if traction control was the answer, atleast 1 of those people would have it on all those trucks I see? You never see advertizements for it, and if it was so great, why wouldn't it be offered by an aftermarket company and become popular? 4 wheeling has been around a long time, so have lockers, but traction control has been around for sometime and if it was so great, it would be widely available, don't you think? I wish you good luck on your project and happy motoring .


Primary rig is Green Thunder:
95' F-150 XLT 4x4, 302, 5 spd, MSD 6A, Flowmaster Exhaust, Sunroof, Clear corners w/ Diamond headlights, CD player with 2 10" subs and some 32" BFG Muds .

Check out my Gallery for a look-see.


Justin - One Happy FTE Member

 

Maybe you missed my question, but Steve, could you please explain why the traction control system you have is any different than the system used on a 95 Cougar or 99 Mustang GT?...I'm curious.



Primary rig is Green Thunder:
95' F-150 XLT 4x4, 302, 5 spd, MSD 6A, Flowmaster Exhaust, Sunroof, Clear corners w/ Diamond headlights, CD player with 2 10" subs and some 32" BFG Muds .

Check out my Gallery for a look-see.


Justin - One Happy FTE Member

 

steve, you should go over to pirate4x4.com and ask them about traction control and why they dont use it. i think 6 or so of the TTC competitors are there, including the winners from the last few years. Also there are many of the TOP competition rockcwalers that lurk around there.

 

Your origanal question of how LONG people have had their L/S or locker in their rigs:

I have had a detroit in the back of my F-250 for over a year and half. the EB has had a Detroit locker for 7 months. They have both performed flawlessly. The only way to destroy a Detroit is to break a shaft. the sudden unloading of torque by breaking a shaft can and has broken Detroits. other than that it will work forever.

Eric

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 10-Dec-02 AT 12:59 PM (EST)]Cognito: hope this helps

I have run Detroit lockers since February of this year. I drive on the street almost everyday but I do alot of mudding. They make a noticeable bang when the rear disengages, but it's not something I find annoying. But then again, I have dual exhaust with no mufflers, solid motor mounds and noisy mud tires, so take that into account as far as an opinion on what's annoying.
I've always heard that except for a full spool, the original detroit locker is the strongest locker type differential made. And I've seen the mud draggers use them with 44's and a hell of alot of power. One thing is for sure, they are far stronger than welded spider gears or replacement side gears that allow a lock/unlock drive.

Clutch pack differential's are nice and work well as long as you don't have extremely different surfaces on both sides (like hard core black mud on the right tires and coral rock on the other, or a better example would be one tire in the air and the others on the ground). Only a locked setup would work there.

Someone else started to say this same thing:
As far as the traction control thing goes (which the new Hummer H2 is also using)it doesn't work for real 4wheeling because of it's very design- you've gotta lose traction before it brakes the spinning tire to turn the other one. Very often at that point you are already SOL. And then your rig just sits there throwing mud alternately from the left to the right, your momentum gone already. The factories are more concerned about comfort and soccer moms, that's why they use terms like finesse and drives "like a luxury sedan" etc...

 

Don't the H2's have selectable locking diffs? Not 100% I thought they did, but my boss is getting one in a couple weeks and I'll be driving it yea!


Primary rig is Green Thunder:
95' F-150 XLT 4x4, 302, 5 spd, MSD 6A, Flowmaster Exhaust, Sunroof, Clear corners w/ Diamond headlights, CD player with 2 10" subs and some 32" BFG Muds .

Check out my Gallery for a look-see.


Justin - One Happy FTE Member

 

I am an avid fourwheeler and have been for many years. I have run lockers, spools.limited slips, and opens. In my opinion the detroit locker is the strongest four dual use (street and offroad). They due have a tendency to wear on rear tires if your running a heavy vehicle or towing trailers. By heavy I mean I had a 76 F250 that scaled out at 7103Lbs. If you decide to go with the limited slip there are different quality ls's out there. My favorite is the Powerlock. It is a 2 piece design and you can add additional clutches to stiffen the pack up to almost locker strength. I currently have 4 4wd's and 3 of them have detroit's in the rear and powerlocks in the front. The 4th 4wd has powerlocks front and rear. And the two wheel drives have powerlocks in the rear of them. Another option is the air lockers, (I am not impressed with strength) and OX lockers In the long run you have to formulate your opinion. The two other things I will say is welded spiders should never be seen on road, only offroad if at all. And as far as a open diffed truck verses a locked up one, If you can get an open diffed truck through a fourwheel drive trail then chances are you probably didn't even need 4wd for that trail. If don't think posi's of one type or another are needed then you are not really fourwheeling hardcore trails.

Bushman

 

I guess that silence means there's no difference between the traction control used on the mustang or cougar and his bronco?..interesting.



Primary rig is Green Thunder:
95' F-150 XLT 4x4, 302, 5 spd, MSD 6A, Flowmaster Exhaust, Sunroof, Clear corners w/ Diamond headlights, CD player with 2 10" subs and some 32" BFG Muds .

Check out my Gallery for a look-see.


Justin - One Happy FTE Member

 

>Don't the H2's have selectable locking diffs? Not 100% I
>thought they did, but my boss is getting one in a couple
>weeks and I'll be driving it yea!
>
The H2 has a rear selectable locker. I believe it's a version of the Eaton e-locker. The front it just a standard GM IFS. Personally I don't care much for the H2's. I read somewhere that like 45% of the parts in them is just GM parts bin stuff. Take a little of this and a little of that slap it all together and sell em' for $50g a shot. Also, even w/ the exceptionally large tires that frame is still hanging down aweful low to the ground; that and they just don't look right. They remind me of a Tahoe w/ a funky body kit. The H1's were low and really wide where the H2 almost looks clumbsy (sp?) Just my $.02 worth.