I have a 1997 Ford F-250 5.8L. The other day, got my pickup back from the garage with an $1,100.00 bill and something doesn't seem right.

Prior to taking it to the garage, it seemed like some of the spark plugs were misfiring upon startup and after a while it would fire fine. When misfiring, the acceleration woud absolutely suck. So, I figure the spark plugs are misfiring and go to Canadian Tire and buy 8 platinum Bosch spark plugs and change it. Doesn't fix the problem. I heard that each spark plugs is set off by seperate spark plug coils, which are directed by the computer. I don't have the equipment to test it, so I take it to a small garage for an estimate.

The mechanic said he had to take a diagnostic and to leave the truck with him. I told him that initiallly it would misfire and then it would be fine. I also told him I put in new spark plugs and that's not the problem. He calls me back later and says that it's either faulty valve injectors or it needs new heads. He said we should start by checking the valve injectors and if it doesn't look like anything seriously wrong with the values, we need new heads. I asked him if it could be anything else like the spark plug coils and he said no. Fine.

He calls me back and says he changed the spark plugs to Ford spark plugs because Bosch spark plugs are garbage. I said I just bought them from Canadian Tire and double checked the numbers. Why would you do that? Because Bosch sparkplugs are garbage, Ford plugs were designed for Ford vehicles. Did it change anything? No.

He also said he found that four of the valve injectors were faulty and that's probably the problem. So, I said go ahead and replace it. He did. He called me when it was done. Then, when I get there, he lets me know that he also had to change the ecm computer with a rebuilt one, which was $270. So, eight hours of work, a rebuilt computer, some new value injectors and spark plugs brings the total to $1,100.

I pay the bill and take my pickup home. At home, I want to see the work and press the hook release. I press the release bar under the hood and the hood is stuck. Like WTF? They were doing work under the hood and they give me it back with a stuck hood? I took my long screw driver to try to tinker with it for a few minutes and finally said to myself forget it, instead of risking breaking something I'll take it back to the mechanic and ask how he got it open.

I go back there around 1pm. Mechanic looks at it, plays with it for a bit and says it's probably got a broken cable bring it back tomorrow morning when he has time. I said I just drove here from the other end of town and you want me to come back in the morning? You should be able to get it off in a couple minutes with a pry bar. He's telling me it may be a broken release cable and it may take a while to take everything apart so I should leave it with him in the morning.

I go home. I call the auto club. Auto club has the hood open in 20 seconds. He takes an adjustable wrench and bends the release bar back a couple inches and said someone bent the release bar so it touched the tranny cooler and wouldn't fully release. Total time to fix=1 minute. And, the auto club guy isn't even a licensed mechanic.

So, if a licensed mechanic doesn't even know how to open a hood and damaged the release bar in the first place, how do I know that spark plugs and valve injectors needed to be replaced? He doesn't sound like he knows what he's doing. This guy is supposed to be a professional. Did he do unnecessary work? When he did the diagnostic, why wasn't the first thing he did to test the ecm computer instead of it being the last thing?

What do you guys think I should do with this?

Should I let it go and chalk it up with experience?

Should I demand he adjust the bill because it looks like he should have tested the computer first and replaced it, not do all this other work?

Also, what does the universal mechanics guide say it takes to do a diagnostic, replace spark plugs, 4 value injectors and a computer (as I challenged Canadian Tire once and they brought out this manual)? Does eight hours sound right? It seems awfully long for a pro.

 

Not sure about how long it takes, but it sounds like this guy padded the bill a bit.. Why charge you for plugs when the ones you had were new?

If the truck is fixed I would choick it up to a learning experience and never use that guy for anything again.. Make sure you tell others of his questionable troubleshooting methods.

Obviously he bent the latch knowing you would be back and he could jab you for another couple hundred dollars..

I don't know if they do it where you are, but I have seen where news stations take a vehicle with a minor problem and a hidden camera in to the service station to get them on tape..

Maybe you could notify one of the local news hounds and give them a tip..

 

maybe give the guy a "review" on the local yellowpages

 

When I have a vehicle worked on I always ask them to save all the parts that they remove. That way I can check to see if those parts are bad and that they came off of my vehicle.

Budman

 

The bosch plats are not good in your truck...Usually when a injector is bad its bad. It doesn't get better when the engine gets warmer. ...Ask him what was wrong with the injectors...And what was wrong with the computer.. Always get answers.
At this point find someone you can trust and take your car to them.

See if you can tell if any injectors were changed
Check the computer to see if its new...
These are just idea's. I feel your pain though.


Dick

 

A: You can't count on customer replaced parts are good. New or not. It was the cheapest and easiest thing to try and his experience told him bosch plugs could cause a problem.

B: What's a valve injector? If you mean a fuel injector, then it is possible that the ECM was taken out by a bad/shorted injector and would not fire properly when it was done. As the temperature changes, an injector that got stuck cold and had a weak/shorted coil could wake up as the resistance drops as the parts expand. As well, the fuel demand when the engine is cold is higher than after it warms up.

He sounds like he was eliminating cheap possibilities before moving on to the expensive ones. He could have mentioned that it might need a computer, but sometimes in the heat of the day it is an unfortunate oversight. Once the injectors were replaced, it was apparent that it needed an ecm and he did it to get it fixed.

C: Even though vehicles are man made, the diagnostics aren't cut and dry. You don't plug the scanner in and get a code/readout and have an answer to the problem. I only wish it were that easy.

D: You have a 5.8L not a 5.4L, so you were misinformed about the coils/plugs. You have one coil and a distributor. The distributor is electronically controlled by a module mounted on the fender and timed by the ecm.

E: So your mechanic doesn't have x-ray vision. Anything could have bent the release and he figured it was stuck from the cable. Another set of eyes realized it wasn't and was able to fix it quickly. Sometimes those things get stiff and can bend when you close the hood. I've had it happen before. So he wouldn't have known it was even an issue.

F: Did you ask for an estimate? If not why? If so was it way over that estimate? You could have argued that you didn't approve the ECM replacement, but that seems to be about it. The rest sounds legit, and he communicated with you along the way as to what he found. It sucks to pay for the plugs twice, but I've been caught too many times ASSUMING something that someone else did was right and it ended up being the problem. He couldn't assume that a shade tree in his driveway didn't gap the plugs incorrectly etc on top of not liking the brand.

G: 8 hours sounds like a days worth of work on that truck. An hour for the plugs (1) some diag time (1), if the injectors were under the manifold there is a significant amount of time to change them (4) , and some time for the ecm (1). So that's an easy 7 without actually looking it up. Did the bill not break out the charges?

I've seen these issues with O2 sensors, MAF sensors, all sorts of things where the aftermarket version just didn't work well at all.

 

He wouldn't give me a written estimate because he didn't know what the problem was. He suggested a diagnostic test. After the diagnostic, he suggested it's probably the heads, which would cost $1,500+ or do cheaper stuff first and hope that it would resolve them problem and put it back together and test if it works. If not, it's the heads.

He didn't break anything down except the parts costs. He just wrote 8 hours labour and what they did, but didn't break it down as to what each job took.

I feel a little better after your explanation. But, bending the latch and not even taking a few minutes to try to fix it with a pry bar after giving him $1,100.00 that day really got to me. I don't understand how a professonal can bend the latch 2 inches like that as an accident. I tested the latch with the auto club guy and everything moved smoothly and seemed well lubricated. Nothing there was scraping that would cause something to get stiff so the latch would accidently bend. Why he didn't even try to release the hood with a pry bar like the auto guy did in 20 seconds has me perplexed. He just tried to open it with his hands. After paying him $1,100.00, it doesn't sound right to have to come back the following morning and leave him my truck to fix the latch. It was only 1pm and he closes at 6pm. With traffic, it takes me half an hour to get there. It's certainly not good customer service.

 

A pry bar doesn't seem like a good way to open a hood to me. Maybe since the auto club guy wasn't a licensed mechanic he just got lucky that he didn't damage the hood. I know it seems unlikely to bend it as such, but then are you saying he bent it? Why on earth would he do that? The mechanic clearly wanted more time with it. I'm sure you aren't the only customer he has paying good money for repairs and it would be a dis-service to them to be put off to address your concern as well as to you for him to not give your problem the full attention.

Sounds like he was as up front as he could be with you then, and was doing what he knew how to and could to save you as much as possible. Maybe he's not the best, but it doesn't sound like he was dishonest with his best assessment of the situation.

 

Where do you live, and where did you take it to?

 

You know Ive been turning wrenches for a Long time...and that story sounds like a pretty shady deal to me. If I customer spends 1k in my shop then almost immediatly brings a vehicle back because they cant open the hood... Busy or Not, Im stopping what Im Doing to fix the friggin thing..I want to keep them Happy!

As to the other... Chris is right, Diagnosing something isnt a black/white kinda deal, but it sounds as if your mechanic isnt as up and up as he should be in what h e fixes, how he fixes, and how he bills.. As suggested above, Check your parts, make sure they look new...and find another mechanic ...