Hey guys My name is Mike. I did a lot of searching of the net and there seams to be a large gathering of folks here that know what there talking about so I joined in search of some help.

Little back ground on me. I am ase certified for what little that is worth. I have fairly extensive back ground in diesel trucks is mostly stock but most of my time was spent with hot v8 gas and turbo-ed 4 bangers. So dont worry about going over my head. If need be I am not afraid to ask.

this is going to be long so please stick with me.

My dad has a 2000 f350 stroke that has been giving lots issues. To the tune of one motor already. Pre new motor it never had and power it was dead ideal to 2500 where it would pick up a bit. I always heard a flutter when bust would come in and always seam to have miss. I checked the harness both inside and out replaced valve cover gaskets and swapped idm's with a known good one. He hauls travel trailers all over the country and wouldn't get out of the dang thing long enough for me to fix it. I wound up having to go get him and trailer it back. The entire left side of the motor was wore around .090 while the right side looked great you could still See the cross hatching in the cylinders and there was no ridge to speak of.



We just replaced the short block and took the chance to install a set of modded stage 1 diy injectors. I used early model AA injectors and cut the plunger to give it 160cc. Get everything back to gather and it will crank up better then ever before runs smother then before until you drive it. There is a tas bit of black smoke out the tail pip and I mean a taf bit. But now once you get to 2400 rpms it falls on its face. It is worse the higher you go in the gears. At this point it will not gain speed 80mph at about 2800 rpms is it and it takes 10 miles to get it there. Once you slow back down it is missing but no codes are found. a cylinder contributory test shows all good. To me it acts like it is running out of fuel or more precisely the fuel is being shut off. I am banging my head against the wall on this one. fuel pressure is 60 ideal around 52 running down the road. I have a flow rate of about 1/8-1/6 of a gallon in 20sec. this seams a bit low to me but I have been unable to find any specs. To his insistence I installed a superchips flashpag in the tow safe setting. It did seam to help but not much It may have gained 200 rpms before it hit the brick wall. It is not trowing any codes and every single test I know to do shows everything is fine. Oh and boost of coarse falls when the fuel for better lack of a word cuts out.

Now the only thing I can think is either the fuel flow is to low and I am running out of fuel in the filter or there is something that is telling it to cut the fuel off but I be dammed if I can figure out what.

Am I on the right track or is there another rought I need to go down.

thanks in advance for any help.

Mike

 

Have you checked fuel pressure at wide open throttle to the point it falls on it's face? Put a scanner on it and watch the ICP pressure and percentage under the same condition. How long on the oil and fuel filter since it was changed?

 

Welcome to FTE Mike. Have you checked the muffler bearing?

Couple of questions for you. When you're talking about the truck falling on it's face is this empty or when towing? If towing, how much weight? I don't drive 80, but the rpm's sound high. Does he have 4.30 rears? I don't think the PCM should defuel the engine at 2800 rpm, but I'll look and see if I can find what rpm it does do this (I'd guess somewhere around the redline).

I'm wondering if the problem isn't a rear end that isn't made to run high speeds. Take a look at the torque curve for these motors. It pretty much takes a nose dive just under 3500 rpm's if I remember correctly. If the problems are when he's towing a load, there may just not be enough horsepower at high speed. If his problems are when empty, then monitoring some live data at WOT should point you in the right direction. ICP pressure, IPR % & things as mentioned above. When you tested fuel pressure, was running down the road at 2400 + rpms? Seems you'd want to know what the fuel pressure was doing while the truck was falling on its face.

Did you look for any causes of the wear on one side of the motor? Any signs of overheating? If he's running a chipped truck now, does he at least have some gauges so he can keep an eye on things? If he wants a chip I'd say look into DP-Tuner or Tony Wildman. If he's running around the country at 2800 rpms, I'd also consider an underdrive unit (gear vendors or US gear) to drop those rpm's down some.

 

thanks guys.

To the best of my knowledge it has 4.10 rear gears. There has not been anything behind it since the short block went in. I wont let him tell we get this straightened out. I did not drive the truck when doing a fuel pressure test but dad was driving it and he said that it never dropped below 52 even when it falls on its face. He dont drive around at 80 ether but I have had a few stroker's and I tend to. never once had one having issue's getting there. It literally takes 5min to o from 2400rpm in 6th gear 2800. Rpm's are ruff not exact. Icp are stay right in line they never take a nose dive. Did have a bad ebp sensor changed that and it was no help. Has for the old block #7 piston was burnt on top and bottom. I suspect that to be do to the very excessive where. Maybe not. There is nothing at all to indicate why one side of the block was wore so bad other then at one point before it blew I fond the intake to y-pipe coupler loose on that side but I don't see how that could have caused it.

The program is no longer on there I put the truck back stock. Some one some where told him it would fix all the problems and if any of you guys have every tried to work with your father you understand why it was easier to do it and prove that it wouldn't fix it.

I have never ever seen the truck pull to 3500 rpm's all the strokes I have ever had would pull like a striped ape up to around 3600. this one just creeps up the rpm band. Think 2.2 s10 auto with 2.72 in the rear.

Oil and filter is fresh. don't have 200 miles on it put it in when we put in the short block.

thanks again guys this is driving me nutz.

Mike

 

Here's some reading for you. Let me know if you need info on a pinpoint test.

Chart 7
Lack/Loss Of Power
Runs Rough
Misses
Buck/Jerk
Hesitation/Stumble
Surge
Additional Driveability Concerns: Poor Fuel Economy
Note: Perform the following preliminary checks:

Confirm brakes are not dragging.
Confirm transmission and axle fluid levels.
Confirm transmission and axle tube are not "cooked".
Check for oil in coolant.
Check engine oil level.
Confirm oil change within 8,046.5 km (5,000 miles).
Check air intake system: Air Filter Minder.
Check MAP sensor hose for holes, blockage, or disconnection.
Check intake manifold system for leaks.
Confirm acceptable SAE oil viscosity and API rating of oil.
Check for sufficient clean fuel.
Check for intake restriction.
Compare loaded weight of vehicle with performance expectations.


SYSTEM/COMPONENT REFERENCE (Section 5 Pinpoint Test unless noted)
Boost Pressure Test GO to Pinpoint Test KH .
Perform KOEO On-Demand Self Test GO to the appropriate pinpoint test if fault is indicated.
Perform KOEO Injector Electrical Self Test GO to the appropriate pinpoint test if fault is indicated.
Retrieve/Clear Continuous DTCs GO to Section 4A or Section 4B , Diagnostic Subroutines, Performance Diagnostic Procedures. RETRIEVE/CLEAR Continuous DTCs. RECORD any codes retrieved. CLEAR Continuous DTCs. RUN vehicle. If CMP fault codes are retrieved, GO to next step. If CMP codes are not present, GO to Check Continuous Fault Codes.
Check Cold CMP Clearance (CMP Code Present) REFER to the Workshop Manual, Section 303-01.
Check CMP Clearance To Timing Disk REFER to the Workshop Manual, Section 303-01.
Check Continuous Fault Codes GO to the appropriate pinpoint test if fault is indicated.
Check For Biased ICP Sensor GO to Pinpoint Test DC .
Check Fuel Pump Pressure GO to Section 4A or Section 4B , Diagnostic Subroutines, Performance Diagnostic Procedures. PERFORM Fuel Pump Pressure Test.
Check Fuel Regulator INSTALL a new regulator valve if there is evidence of sticking or foreign material.
Check Pump Inlet Restriction GO to Section 4A or Section 4B , Diagnostic Subroutines, Performance Diagnostic Procedures. PERFORM Inlet Restriction Test.
Check For Aerated Oil GO to Section 4A or Section 4B , Diagnostic Subroutines, Performance Diagnostic Procedures. PERFORM Injection Control Pressure Test.
Check Source Of Aerated Oil OVERFILL the engine with 1.9 L (2 quarts) of the specified oil. RAISE the rear of the vehicle approximately 25 cm (10 inches). RUN engine at WOT for 180 seconds. If ICP is greater than 12.4 mPa (1,800 psi) or 1.75 V oil is aerating due to lack of defoaming agents, CHANGE engine oil and RETEST. If it is less, REPAIR O-ring or pickup tube leak. REFER to the Workshop Manual, Section 303-01.
Injection Control Pressure Test GO to Section 4A or Section 4B , Diagnostic Subroutines, Performance Diagnostic Procedures. PERFORM Injection Control Pressure Test.
Check For Low IDM Power GO to Pinpoint Test NA .
Check Lubrication Pressure REFER to the Workshop Manual, Section 303-00.
KOER On-Demand Self Test GO to Section 4A or Section 4B , Diagnostic Subroutines, Performance Diagnostic Procedures. PERFORM KOER On-Demand Self Test. If DTC 1211 is present, GO to Section 4A or Section 4B . MONITOR ICP while cranking (9C). If DTC 0476 is present, GO to Pinpoint Test DE . If no DTCs are present, GO to Section 4A or Section 4B , Crankcase Pressure Test.
Check Balance Pressure PLUG high-pressure hose for right cylinder head using Adapter for 303-S626. RECORD IPR at specified rpm (F650/750 2,500 rpm, all others 3,000 rpm). PLUG high-pressure hose for left cylinder head using Adapter for 303-S626 and REATTACH high-pressure hose on right cylinder head. RECORD IPR at specified rpm. If IPR duty cycle difference is greater than 2%, GO to Check For Leak Source. If it is not, INSTALL a new IPR.
Check For Leak Source REMOVE valve cover on cylinder head with higher IPR reading. With engine idling, LOOK for bubbling around injector bores or oil gallery drain plugs. Or, with engine off, ATTACH approximately 689 kPa (100 psi) air pressure to high-pressure oil gallery. REMOVE injector spill spouts for visibility. LOOK/LISTEN for leaks. If a leak is present, INSTALL new seals on injectors or RESEAL oil galleries as required. If not, GO to Section 4A or Section 4B , Diagnostic Subroutines, Performance Diagnostic Procedures. PERFORM KOER Cylinder Contribution Test.
Check For Biased EBP Sensor GO to Pinpoint Test DE .
Check For Exhaust Restriction (KOER, DTC 0476) GO to Pinpoint Test KB .
Exhaust Back Pressure Operation Test GO to Pinpoint Test KB .
Check EPR Electrical System GO to Pinpoint Test KB .
Check For Engine Wear GO to Section 4A or Section 4B , Diagnostic Subroutines, Performance Diagnostic Procedures. PERFORM Crankcase Pressure Test.
Check For Piston Or Valve Leaks REFER to the Workshop Manual, Section 303-00.
Check For Exhaust Restriction (N) DTC) Note: F650/750 vehicles are not equipped with an EBP sensor.
Procedure for measuring exhaust back pressure (EBP) can be found in Section 4B . MEASURE exhaust back pressure (EBP). If EBP is greater than 234 kPa (34 psi) or 2 V, LOCATE and REPAIR restriction in exhaust system. VERIFY repair.
Check Fuel Injector Oil Discharge REMOVE valve covers. OBSERVE oil flow out of fuel injector spill spouts with engine at idle. If there is high oil flow, INSTALL new fuel injectors.
Atmospheric Pressure Rationality Check GO to Section 2 , Diagnostic Methods Parameter Identification (PID). With KOEO, SELECT Parameter Identification (PID). SELECT PIDs: EBP, MAP and BARO (EBP is not used on F650/750). If any PID values/readings deviated from atmospheric pressure in your locale by more than 10 kPa (1.5 psi), GO to the appropriate pinpoint test for the sensor with the largest difference.
Check For Biased EOT Sensor GO to DB13 .
EOT Rationality Check GO to Pinpoint Test DB .

 

Big time boost problem is what it sounds like to me if you are sure the fuel system is up to the task, which I do not. I would like to see a minimum of 57-60 all the way up.

Having said that, what kind of boost #s is it making. Double check all the CAC tube connections and make sure there are no exhaust leaks from heads to turbo.

As for the EBV and wastegate, just disable them and give us a boost reading.

Oh, and welcome to FTE.

 

dude..
got a backpressure gauge?
I just wanna say something's restricted in the outflow side...

 

f350-6 thanks for the diagnostic tree. I will run down it tomorrow. I very well may need a bit of help on some of the pinpoint test.

I am in Texas also where abouts are you.

Mike

 

I think I know what you are saying. At any rate it will manifest itself on the other side and not produce any boost. We need boost #s. Disable EBV and ensure it is open. Get some boost #s.

Of course a backpressure gauge is and invaluable tool. He!!, I don't even have one but can interpolate it from the AE log of the EBS.

 

I'm just South of the DFW area. What part are you from?

 

boost never gets over 10-12 and them drops right off when hit hits the so called brick wall. I mean it hits 0. I don't have a back pressure gauge but I know a guy that does and I will borrow it.

I dont really like to low fuel pressure ether. I have always been of the thinking more is better and have been thinking about putting a bosch 044 to see if it helps.

Thanks
Mike

 

Ok I type very very slow.

I am north of dfw real close to lake texhoma.

Mike

 

Boost dropping to 0 sounds like a good place to start like the other Mike suggested. See what the boost does with the wastegate disabled.

 

Check what I posted or go down Chris' list. That can be very tedious. It is a good list, just tedious, right out of the manual.

Edit: now I am typing slow and distracted by events around me.

 

I will try it in the morning. after read reading my above post I thought I might need to add the fact that the small amount of black smoke coming out the tail pipe stops at the same point. It does come back once you drop down in the rpm band and try to run it back up but as soon as it hits the so called wall it stops smoking. I guess this was the main thing that made me think it was a fueling issue.

Do I need to disconnect the wast gate or the exhaust brake valve or both.

Mike