After not working on my truck for a short time, finally got back to the WP. Took a dremel tool and cut parallel to the bolts on the water pump casing. This was the trick, as it allowed the bolts to free themselves from the rusty pump. I pryed if off with a cold chisel. Didn't damage the timing cover, but now that I'm there, would like to change out the timing chain.

couple questions:

1. Where can I find spare bolts for the timing cover/WP? I broke four or five.

2. The top part of the timing cover seems to want to come loose. the bottom does not. It seems to fit into a groove on the oil pan. Must I remove 3 or 4 bolts each side, on the oil pan, first? I tried removing the first and loosening the 2nd and 3rd, each side. Couldn't get it free. Hate prying on the flexible soft oil pan mating metal. Any tips? You can't drop a center link like you could on a GM, for easy pan removal. there's the damn 'twin I-beams' to contend with.

3. Last, which aftermarket repair manual would be best for my truck: Haynes or Chiltons. (I used to prefer Chiltons, but for this truck, maybe Haynes is better??) Would love to get hold of a factory service (shop) manual, but these things are hard to find.

 

1. Find the thread pitch and underhead length of the bolt, and get them anywhere you get bolts (hardware store). They're probably grade 5 but check the bolt head first to make sure. To tell you the truth, I always get bolts through BoltDepot.com because I got tired of spending an entire Saturday afternoon driving across town three different times because one Lowe's is low on one thing you need and another Lowe's is out of another bolt and another hardware store doesn't carry what you need. The added shipping cost is worth it to me.

2. The front oil pan bolts usually thread into the bottom of the timing cover, not the block. What motor is this?

3. Both suck, pick your poison. A Ford shop manual would be best as you implied; often you can find them through eBay or on CD from misc. vendors. Either one of those books will have enough information to do your project.

 

I have the 400 motor (6.6L). It looks like the pan bolts to the block. I may have made a mistake in removing these front three bolts on each side of the oil pan. I also wedged a gasket remover into the front edge on each side of oil pan. May have destroyed seal on oil pan and may get leak? Can you drop oil pan enough to put new gasket on it (assuming I frigged up the front edge that mates to block)?

 

Once you know the size and length you need go to a Tractor Supply, Atwoods, or something like that. The bolts are I'm almost certian grade 5.

Assuming it is a FE engine, you have to remove 5 or 6 bolts from the front of the oil pan. They bolt into the timing cover. There is one on each side and I believe 3-maybe 4 on the front. The timing cover gasket set will come with a replacement gasket for the pan to timing cover. A little silicone in the corners and you should be good on the replacement.

 

I want to say the timing cover is flat on the 400 and the pan doesn't bolt to it, but I'm trying to think it through and I can't imagine how the pan does not bolt to it, it'd almost have to. I'm sorry but I don't have my 400 build book here and my memory is not working. You should post the question in the 335-series forum because they will know for sure. Like I said, at first I thought it didn't but when I think about it, I can't imagine that being possible.

 

Sorry, missed that 400 part! My mistake!

 

I just looked at my 351C timing cover-no pan bolts. The tc is just a flat plate with a flange for the pan to tc cover rubber gasket.
I would think the two alignment dowels in the front of the block, that align the tc are forceing the tc against the rubber gasket and oil pan. Those dowels are about 1/4" diameter, and the tc plate itself is about 1/8" thick so that will be a tight fit-not to mention the gaskets holding it and corrosion. It should be tough to get out, but not impossible, and I don't think you will need to drop the pan.

If you think the pan to block gasket is comprimised just degrease it and try to smear some high temp silicone into the gap and button er up. Provided there are no chunks of pan gasket falling out or in.
+1 on the bolts and manual.

When/if you replace your timing chain-make sure the replacement doesn't have the nylon cam gear teeth-not the best for reliability, and hopefully they have been phased out for the good ol all metal timing set.
Also check your timing cover for corrosion pits where the waterpump sits. Some pitting is ok, of course you don't want it through because that means coolant in the crankcase.
Hope it helps, good luck!

 

351C's, 351M's and 400's don't have a timing cover.

What's there instead is a flat steel plate (D6AZ-6B070-A), which Ford calls a "Cylinder Front Cover Plate."

Mechanical fuel pumps are normally mounted on timing covers, but on these engines, the fuel pump bolts (at 12 & 6 o'clock) on the drivers side of the engine block.

Hardware for the cover (as listed in the parts catalog):

3) 383963S .. Bolt (plate and waterpump to block). Hex washer head: 5/16" -18 x 2 29/32."

4) 372995S13 .. Screw & Washer (plate to block). hex head: 5/16" -18 x 3/4."

4) 42789S8 .. Screw & Washer (plate to block). Hex head: 5/16" -18 x 3/4."

3) 56121S .. Bolt (plate to block). Hex washer head: 5/16" -28 x 7/8." greensalescompany.com has these bolts: 800-543-4959

I searched the internet and the dealers inventory for these parts, only found one part number.

All this hardware is obsolete.

But...you might luck out at your local dealer, because most dealers don't throw hardware away, it's usually not on inventory (dollar wise), so it may lay unused in drawers for decades.

The same hardware was used on 351C/351M/400: 1970/79 passenger cars / 351M/400: 1977/82 F100/350's / 1978/82 Bronco's / 1980/82 Econolines.
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Ford shop manuals: helminc.com has some new factory Ford originals available for late 1970's F100/350's. Helm has printed all of Ford's literature for 60 years.

faxonautolit.com sells original and reprints of original Ford shop manuals, owners manuals, sales brochures, you name it.

 

Thanks for that very complete info, NumberDummy.

Let me say that I do not need any bolts that only attach plate to block (and don't go thru water pump). The only ones that broke were ones that went thru WP. Also, I count 11 bolts that go thru waterpump and plate to block. There are 4-6 (I forget whether it's four or six) more holes on WP alone, that attach AC and PS brackets. Also, the top most bolt, the one right under the vacuum advance for the distributor, technically does not thread into block. It's a bolt that attaches WP to the plate only.

Anyway, here's what I have for bolts, starting with the very top bolt, the one right under the distributor vacuum advance and going around clockwise:

1. Bolt, 5/16-18, hex washer head. Length: 1 1/4 inches.

2. Bolt, 5/16-18, hex head. Length: 1 23/32 inches. has a split washer

3 & 4: same as #2.

5. Bolt, 5/16-18, hex washer head. Length: 2 27/32 inches.

6. same as #5. #5 and #6 are on top and bottom of lower radiator hose outlet.

7. same as #1.

8. Bolt, 5/16-18, hex washer head. Length: about 3 inches (but has other washers stacked) to make its 'effective' length about the same as #5 and #6. Interestingly, the bolt head size is only 3/8"!! Talk about a small head on a large bolt! I'm thinking this may not be original. It's one of the two bolts that also hold on the alternator bracket (and goes thru WP, plate, into block).

9. like #2,3, and 4

10. like #2,3,4, and 9

11. Bolt, 5/16-18, hex washer head (but has other washers stacked). This one is nearly same as #8, except the head size wasn't a 3/8 but rather, a 1/2" like all the rest of the bolts. this one is the other bolt that holds alternator bracket onto WP, goes thru WP, plate, and into block.

The bolts that are broken are: #1, #3, #9, #10, #11.

Do these sizes and things sound correct?

There are three bolts that hold just the plate to the block (and don't pass thru WP): two are shouldered studs that hold on the timing advance strip plate, one is a short bolt closer to bottom of plate.

Apologies for a long post.

 

Alchemist - it's going to be very hard for someone to be able to run through that and decipher what you have and what you need. Figuring out what it takes to bolt something up from scratch is a pretty universal problem. You'll need to look at the timing cover and the water pump and find the locations of the bolts along the flanges, and then locate them on the block. Then you'll need to find the pitch and underhead-length of the needed bolts. The best way to do this is to try a bolt and see if it threads through. To find out how long you'll need, take a really long bolt of the right pitch and thread it in until it bottoms out, and that tells you how deep the hole is and usually the next 1/4" length under that is the max bolt length you want, just don't go so short that the bolt only has a few theads to dive into. I keep a brownie tin full of miscellaneous bolts just for these purposes. Alternatively you can try and see if ARP sells a bolt kit for your application. I'm sorry that this isn't really the answer you were looking for but my method seems more straightforward. Of course if someone else is able to make a list for you that you can take to Lowe's based off what you listed then more power to them.

 

Before assembly-remember which bolts will need sealant, so you can apply it to the threads of whichever bolt/s pass through into a coolant passage.